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Thank you for bringing up real data for reference
Let it just be powerful enough to punch the last decisive holes into the compartments that keep an evacuated ship afloat.
If you're going to be working on the damage output you should also consider restricting the use based on windspeed and sea state.
Basically, the entire thing should be heavily nerfed.
Sinking 2392387529385 tonnes in a patrol with the flak and deck gun is lame and shouldn't be possible.
Ideally ships shouldn't sink at the first shot, but it also shouldn't take more than a couple dozen shells at most to sink all but the largest (or armored) ships.
yes, you are right. This is an extreme example. I agree it shouldn't be nerfed so much. 10-20 hits (!) with the deckgun should be convincing.
But it is also too acurate when operated manually. The above example with only 1/3 of the shells actually being a hit is about realistic. The deck of a sub is not quite an optimal platform for artillery.
At least for the early years. Once merchants began to be armed, it was no longer needed. In fact Donitz (can't do the dots on this keyboard) banned the removal of these guns until 27th April 1943 when it became important for Atlantic fleet to remove them and Mediteranian fleet to keep them.
They were extremely effective at finishing off stragglers and wounded merchants.
They fired 50 3,7cm rounds
How many times do you want to bring up this extreme example?
Its not the first time that you bring this up as an example how bad the deck gun was, ignoring the circumstances of this example, empty freighter, dark, long swell, opend fire at 3,5km.
This source doesn't suggest this.
This source says that the second torpedo was fired at 2:41 AM, after which Bleichrodt continued attacking with artillery. 7:45 - 2:41 = 5:04
this source is not suggesting how many 3.7 rounds were fired. It says at 6:33 already 100 grenades (!) were fired and at 7:45 (at sinking) 200 grenades.
And what is your problem with me bringing it up again?
Nihilcat has noticed and will hopefully finally nerf the deckgun making it more realistic, then I promise not to bring it up again unless someone questions the nerf.
I have noted that it was carrying ballast and I did not say that the circumstances were irrelevant. Circumstances are also that a 10,5 cm round carries about 1,5 times more kinetic energy compared to 8,8 round from the deck gun mounted on VII/C boats. I could blame you ignoring that.
Also I have always agreed that this was an extreme example. I have not demanded that every deckgun fight must be like that. But sinking 5k GRT ships with a couple of 20mm rounds from the type II flak and at most two shots with the deck gun is definetelly not right, don't you agree?
I know there is a boat book in the game, but does anyone know if there is an encyclopedia of the different boats with information about them I can view in game? I'm new and a little lost. If there isn't, it would be cool to have access to something like that so we can use it to make decisions like the example I gave.
If you let your crew shoot, their accuracy is what you,d expect on a submarine platform.
This would be fantastic. I managed to fire off a belt of the anti aircraft gun at the bow of the ship and the bow broke off. It did feel quite immersion breaking.
The Sinking Physics Overhaul mod was fantastic for ship sinking. They take quite awhile to sink and can flip over when going down depending on the compartment breached.
Thanks for the game again!
I agree that a study on the subject makes sense, and that the damage model shouldn't rely only on one of the most extreme examples.
But juggling with hull thickness and penetration numbers i think won't bring us much further here, you can basically expet that a grenade from 8,8cm gun will certainly penetrate the hull of a merchant. Even 20 mm flak will probably penetrate. But a couple of holes alone will not necesserily sink it. It depends on many things how many penetrating hits a ship can take. For example what is loaded. An empty freighter carrying just ballast will be much harder to sink with the deckgun then a freighter loaded with ore. It will depend on how many compartements are flooding and how fast they are flooding. Whether the bulkdoors were closed on time by the crew and how well the crew controls damage and how well it deals with the leaks etc...
Also holes above water line would not couse flooding at first. But if there are holes below water line that are causing flooding, those above water line will be below it later and cause additional flooding. Its a complex matter.
I would rather suggest looking for more historical examples and try to tune the deckgun so that it roughly matches the stand scenario. But there should also be some randomnes involved as many factors play a role. Sometimes you may be lucky and sometimes not.
I was the author of SPO mod, when studying the code I have got an idea how the damage system works.
The shell basically creates a damage bubble of certain size on impact, which bypassing hull hardness and resistence calculation will damage any internal compartement that are touched by the damage bubble, causing the affected compartement eventually to start flooding. Once a compartement starts flooding it will certainly flood to the top, its just a matter of time.
While this makes sense at first sight, this damage model is too simple I think.
Knowing how it works allows to exploit it. Just placing 1 round from 20mm gun every few meters along the hull will cause multiple compartements to start flooding. Even though slowly, but it will sooner or later definetelly flood too many compartements neglect the buyancy and sink the ship.
In real world the leaking compartements will only flood up to the water line.
Holes above water line would not cause flooding, but eventually cause flooding later when getting below water line. Water line plays here an important role. This should be accounted, then it would be much harder to sink ships with a few rounds from a flak and would do nothing if they were all above water line.
Also the cargo plays an important role. If the ship is empty only carrying ballast, the crew would drop ballast and resist flooding. A ship carrying heavy cargo such as tanks or ore will have much less buyancy overhead and will lose the fight against flooding much sooner.
Also in real world the crew would fight against leaks and they will quickly stop leaking from a few 20cm holes. They will also use pumps to get the water out of flooding compartements or at least slow down the flooding. It would require to overwhelm their capacity to fight against leaks in order to win the fight with the deck gun and flak.