Some initial impressions playing with the new Type IIA

[Sabre_One]

The Type IIA is a nice change and I appreciate the work DWS put into it, but the limited fuel range really puts a damper on things. By the time I get to a patrol zone on the East coast of England, I’ve used 20% of my fuel while using every effort to be economical (one extra sailor assigned to engines and running on the most economical speed when on surface). Save another 25% for the return trip and that leaves approximately 50-55% of the tank. Patrolling 2250 kilometers then consumes about another 35-40% (depending on how much distance is underwater), and that leaves about 15-20% for pursuing contacts, new mission assignments, and error.

Given how limited the fishing is in the North Sea, any contact is enticing to pursue. That 15-20% burns up very fast. I’ve only played a few missions in the new boat, but it really sucks when I need to return to port without a kill because I’m running dangerously low on fuel.

A few ideas for the devs…

1) Make the size option for the crew on the Type II boats 16 instead of 14 (there's enough bunks according to my count). If the crew size was larger, another sailor could be assigned to the engines and increase the efficiency. If the devs decide not to do this in an upcoming patch, I hope the Expanded Crew mod is updated soon to make this boat more playable.

2) More target activity in the North Sea. If there was more activity in the North Sea, players could be more discriminating in pursuing contacts and there wouldn’t be as much need to push the engines chasing a handful of fish. And this is even trickier now with the new method of displaying contacts as a cone of uncertainty. That’s not a complaint, I like the change! But finding those contacts does require more fuel consumption due to their less predictable location.

3) Make a starting option with the Type VIIB available in September 1939, similar to how the VIIC was available in September ’39 previously. For players who want to start early but don’t want to worry about micromanaging every last drop of fuel, this would resolve the issue entirely.

[Sabre_One]

Originally posted by panzerd18:

I actually think the opposite the IIA has too much range. Cruising with full fuel from the starting port at ahead 2/3's with an officer and two crew at the engines you will get over 10,000km range. With an officer navigating and two crew it will be even more.

Going all ahead full, you can get around 5,300km of range out of a full tank with no crew assisting.

The boat should only have 3,000km range.

How do you get 10,000? According to the fuel indicator, the BEST range one can get out of the Type IIA with an engineer and two crew members on ahead slow (the most economical setting) is 5900km. Unless you're counting on 4.100 km underwater.

[Sabre_One]

Originally posted by ждун:

I agree, the patrol distance requirement is difficult to complete with the limited range of type IIA.

But my suggestion would be to have different patrol tasks for the type II. It is supposed to be coast boat, operating mostly near enemy coasts not in the high sea. It should have with smaller patrol area near british / polish coast and separate tasks with less kilometers patrol distance requirement.

I think this is a good idea and probably more historically realistic. Reducing the required patrol distance to 1,000km or 1,250km would make a huge difference.

[rickywild]

Originally posted by Sabre_One:

Originally posted by panzerd18:

I actually think the opposite the IIA has too much range. Cruising with full fuel from the starting port at ahead 2/3's with an officer and two crew at the engines you will get over 10,000km range. With an officer navigating and two crew it will be even more.

Going all ahead full, you can get around 5,300km of range out of a full tank with no crew assisting.

The boat should only have 3,000km range.

How do you get 10,000? According to the fuel indicator, the BEST range one can get out of the Type IIA with an engineer and two crew members on ahead slow (the most economical setting) is 5900km. Unless you're counting on 4.100 km underwater.

check, when your batteries are charged, it shows around 3800 miles.
1070nm - patrol, 1000nm each way and some reserve for hunting. So, everything between Lend's End, Shetland and to the North of Bergen is yours

[Wrath of the North]

Originally posted by Sabre_One:

Originally posted by MakePrettyRivets:

You can alternate diesel and electric and get like 4x the range. I can go from the coast of france to the USA and back with the stock Type IIA so long as I don't run on diesel as often as possible. You only run diesel to charge the battery.

I've done that before too in the previous B-series releases. It's a lot of micromanaging, but it works.

But historically, I'm not sure of that's how the Type II operated...limping underwater between battery charges for a week or so between Wilhemshaven and England.

This is NOT the way.

Sure, you can do it in the game because the game is totally arcade in that regard but it's a major drop in efficiency to charge the batteries - alternating between diesels, depleting the batteries and subsequently recharging the batteries would be a huge waste of fuel.

[CyberTrapper]

Originally posted by Sabre_One:

The Type IIA

Range on the surface (miles)
(at speed 8 knots) 1600
Submerged range (miles)
(at a speed of 4 knots) 35

[Sabre_One]

I was looking at the data sheets and saw an entry for patrol distance. I think my first mod may be Reduced Patrol Distance, lowering the patrol distance requirement in zones to 1,000/1,250/1,500km. It will affect patrol assignments for the type VII's as well, but who cares. I personally prefer to hunt where there's targets rather than burning fuel and time zig-zagging around a desolate zone so I can tick the mission completed marker.

[Sabre_One]

Originally posted by PapaOscar:

Plenty enough for the north sea missions the game gives. Just don't cruise on max speed. Half, or 1/3 and your set for many thousands of km travel (at the cost of time, but food is cheap).

I usually cruise at the most economical speed (ahead slow) unless pursuing a contact or trying to charge batteries quickly.

[Lord Haart]

Slow down a little, alternate between dies and lec and ewe get phar moar

[panzerd18]

Originally posted by Sabre_One:

How do you get 10,000? According to the fuel indicator, the BEST range one can get out of the Type IIA with an engineer and two crew members on ahead slow (the most economical setting) is 5900km. Unless you're counting on 4.100 km underwater.

My game must be bugged to have so much of a discrepancy. It's like my IIa has the IId fuel range.

I completed a patrol of 2300km. I returned with 47 percent diesel fuel remaining. I only stayed underwater during storms or close to shipping, so didn't abuse the electric engine bug. I normally had an officer and two crew on the engines at all time.

Is the 1600km fuel range calculated at all ahead full 3/5 or flank speed 5/5?

[Sadist_cain]

1/3rd to get there 1/3rd for fighting and 1/3rd to get home.

Never need to think more than this.

[panzerd18]

Looking at the official type IIa specifications. It should do 3000km at 8 knots or 14.6km/h.

[Blech_Mech]

The website is in German and contains information on all German submarines of WW2

U-Boot-Archiv Wiki
www.ubootarchiv.de/ubootwiki/index.php/II_A

English translation via Firefox

"The boats of type II A were single-hull coastal boats with inside main rapid diving cell. This type was the first to be built in Germany after the First World War. It was derived from the VESSIKKO, built in 1931 to 1933 in Finland, as well as of the UB II type of 1915 and the type UF from 1918. These small boats were strong and manoeuvrable. They were built between 1934 and 1935 and cost an average of 1. 500000 Reichsmark. Several properties have been improved in the following versions (B; C; D). After 1941, type II was no longer manufactured. It was held in deep sea boats. During the war, these boats operated mainly in German coastal waters and in the English Channel (1939/1940) and from the summer of 1941 against the Russians in the Baltic Sea. Many were used as school boats. Several boats were transported via the German canals and the Danube into the Black Sea, where they operated until 1944. In the battle at sea, few of these boats were lost, most of them were destroyed by bombing or were denied during the surrender itself."

Maximum speed: 13.0 kn (Sepped) ---> 24 km
Maximum speed: 6.9 kn (daughter) ---> 13 km
Driving route: 1,050 nm at 12 kn (High-Cruise) ---> 1,945 km / 22 km
Driving route: 1,600 nm at 8 kn (cruise) ---> 2,963 km / 15 km
Immersed: 35 nm at 4 kn (normal) ---> 65 km / 7 km

[panzerd18]

Actually looking at my patrol 2300km with 47 percent fuel left, would amount to approximately 3450km range. This makes sense with the bonus given to crew working in engines and navigation. So I believe it is correct and the mouse over on the fuel icon that predicts 10000km range is incorrect and maybe still based on the VII boat.

Either way, of the multiple patrols in the IIa so far I've found it has plenty of range to make patrolling in the North Sea and off the British East coast. Just be mindful to cruise at a reasonable speed, such as 8 knots. Using 4/5 and 5/5 flank speed should only be used for short times and high speed cruise 3/5 12 knots to cover longer distances to run down enemies.

[Sabre_One]

Originally posted by panzerd18:

Actually looking at my patrol 2300km with 47 percent fuel left, would amount to approximately 3450km range. This makes sense with the bonus given to crew working in engines and navigation. So I believe it is correct and the mouse over on the fuel icon that predicts 10000km range is incorrect and maybe still based on the VII boat.

Either way, of the multiple patrols in the IIa so far I've found it has plenty of range to make patrolling in the North Sea and off the British East coast. Just be mindful to cruise at a reasonable speed, such as 8 knots. Using 4/5 and 5/5 cruise should only be used for short times and high speed cruise 3/5 12 knots to cover longer distances to run down enemies.

Thanks. That makes sense and that's in line with what I've got too.

I suppose the frustration would be less if the zones on the east of England weren't so desolate. In a type VII previously, if I was in an inactive zone, I'd finish the patrol distance as required and seek targets somewhere better (like the Irish Sea). In my first patrol last night, I didn't find one contact. Not one. And didn't have enough fuel left to make it through the channel and back. I had no choice but to return to base.

If that happens on my current patrol, I may try infiltrating a harbor to get my tonnage. But I suspect the harbors are probably empty too based on past experience with the game.

[TheOofertaffy]

Originally posted by Sabre_One:

Originally posted by rickywild:

well, not every patrol had engagements
and you still have VIIB since September 39

Where? I didn't see a VIIB start option in 1939. Only later in 1940.

I'm 100% certain the second or third campaign option is a VIIB. I started it yesterday. upon starting the campaign, it said September 01 1939. And when through the whole shobacal of starting the war etc.