Engaging distances realistic?

[Pablos16]

I am not military history expert, but are in-game torpedo engagement distances realistic? In SH3 in order to hit, you are typicaly shooting from no more than 2 km, in Uboat i find 7+ km hits perfectly doable.

Is it simplified cause of more casual nature of the Uboat game or is it historicaly correct and uboat captains sniped enemy ships from such distances during WWII?

[Dewgle]

In real life short distance attacks of less than 2km were necessary because of several factors.

Commanders preferred to attack in the pitch of night. Under such conditions, all the commander could see was the dark silhouette of something roughly merchant-shaped against a starry backdrop.

It also didn't help that many merchants had non-standard designs that were not listed in the commander's recognition manual. This made calculating speed and distance difficult without the aid of known ship length and ship height so guesstimations at close range were used instead.

In Uboat, the game, you also have the benefit of a top down ego camera with all targets clearly plotted for you on the map making speed and distance calculations very easy if using the map is your preference over the periscope.

So if you want more of a challenge than try using mods like Real Navigation which removes ALL map icons including your own. Forcing you to chart your own course manually and spend more time in the periscope. When using that mod, the periscope becomes your lifeline as it is the only way you'll be able to maintain situational awareness.

For even more of a challenge you could avoid using the recognition manual except for ships like the C3, Liberty and War Class tankers or stop using it all together and rely only on guesstimated speed and range for all your shots.

Through a combination of mods and self control you dictate your own difficulty in this game.

[Dewgle]

Here's a post on Reddit where I give a detailed breakdown of what actually makes Uboat easier for the casual user and how to increase your own challenge and difficulty level.

https://www.reddit.com/r/uboatgame/comments/14x4xd2/arcade_or_subsim/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1

[Pablos16]

That's very helpful, thanks. I was avoiding mods so far, but will give it a try to have more challenge in Uboat.

[wolf310ii]

Originally posted by McDewgle:

It also didn't help that many merchants had non-standard designs that were not listed in the commander's recognition manual.

It was not that they werent listed, it was that there were a lot more "ship classes" than in a computergame what made it a lot harder to correct identify a ship.
They had serval books with almost every ship in it.
Books for merchants with siluettes and or descriptions like how many and were the superstuctures, funnels, loading cranes, ect. were.
Books for war ships, more detailed than the book for merchants, with more photos of the ships.
And the Lloyds register, with every ships name, owner, flag and BRT.

Here a few of the book names:
Die Handelsflotten der Welt 1942 M.Dv. Nr 135
Suchliste für Schiffsnamen
Kriegsflotten des Mittelmeers
Kriegsschiffe der vereinigten Staaten von Nordamerika U.S.A.
Französische Kriegsschiffe im feindlichen Machtbereich
Schiffserkennungsdienst England

[Nz0]

in reality there is The North Atlantic Current (NAC), also known as North Atlantic Drift
There is many Sea Movements,
I don't think this game models torp drift...

Oh yeah, please surprise me ,,tell me the game models torp drift using normal gaussian distribution algo calculation as it should be

[DECAFBAD]

U-boats didn't aim torpedoes based on their speed above ground. Torp drift = target ship drift. Cause for difference? Wind. But wind doesn't move cargo ships very fast, does it? And if you attack with the wind blowing from behind you to minimise spray as they did? Then wind has no effect other than increasing the run distance, which we know isn't a factor.

[Nz0]

Originally posted by DECAFBAD:

U-boats didn't aim torpedoes based on their speed above ground. Torp drift = target ship drift. Cause for difference? Wind. But wind doesn't move cargo ships very fast, does it? And if you attack with the wind blowing from behind you to minimise spray as they did? Then wind has no effect other than increasing the run distance, which we know isn't a factor.

The torp's drift is NOT equal to the target ship's drift.
especially if there is many km between them.
And yes the wind cause drift and also the underwater flow (ex:"The Gulf Stream").
And this not small at all, Can push any ship !
and thats why they have anchors.

[Nz0]

from Wikipedia :
"""The Gulf Stream is typically 100 kilometres (62 mi) wide and 800 metres (2,600 ft) to 1,200 metres (3,900 ft) deep. The current velocity is fastest near the surface, with the maximum speed typically about 2.5 meters per second (5.6 mph).[24]"""

So, lets have a simple calculation,
in case your target is far and have to wait 5minuts before torpedo impact, how much is the drift ???
2.5meters x 300seconds = 750m...

[DECAFBAD]

You're trying to tell me that a ship can be in the Gulf stream and when you launch a torpedo it will be outside the Gulf stream.

[DECAFBAD]

Do both types of torpedoes exhibit this behaviour, or is it only the electric that drifts, while the steam moves relative to the ground below?

[Nz0]

Originally posted by DECAFBAD:

You're trying to tell me that a ship can be in the Gulf stream and when you launch a torpedo it will be outside the Gulf stream.

you have binary mind, ,,
Take a look on Wikipedia, there is a picture, you will see,
It doesn't push in just one direction with unique constant force.
The stream is pure chaos !
and we are talking about shooting at 5km !!!

Ok, lets say target and torp are drifting in the exact same direction,,,,
But the push force on the torpedo is half coz.. not same mass not same shape, ok ?
Then: 2.5meters x 300seconds /2 = 325m............
You tried to shoot the middle of C3 cargo ship ? its a big miss because the max offset was 75m

Plus ! in real a 10knots cruising boat is in fact moving at 9,23456451 knots and one moment later maybe briefly 13knots,

[DECAFBAD]

So now it's not 750m, now it's 325m! That is progress! Will we reach the correct answer in one more step, or infinite steps?
What is this force that you speak of? What is pushing the torpedo???? There is no magic force. The torpedo heads straight ahead in the water. Not relative to the ground below, but relative to the sea around it.

You greatly underestimate the momentum of a cargo ship. It can not accelerate at a higher rate than 1knot per minute! This brief 13 knot surge is hilarious.

[DECAFBAD]

Wait till Nz0 finds out the ship is also travelling at 900 knots due to the rotation of Earth. The TDC target speed dial doesn't even go that high!!! But the target is pushed harder than the torpedo, so what will their speed be?

[Dewgle]

Originally posted by DECAFBAD:

Wait till Nz0 finds out the ship is also travelling at 900 knots due to the rotation of Earth. The TDC target speed dial doesn't even go that high!!! But the target is pushed harder than the torpedo, so what will their speed be?

You just reminded me that the earth is moving at 220 kilometers per second through our galaxy and made me motion sick, thanks 🤢

[Nz0]

Originally posted by DECAFBAD:

Wait till Nz0 finds out the ship is also travelling at 900 knots due to the rotation of Earth. The TDC target speed dial doesn't even go that high!!! But the target is pushed harder than the torpedo, so what will their speed be?

Haha,, yeah im just joking,
there is not pushing forces at all in sea
if the torpedo miss its because dolphins are pushing it away.
and the anchors of ships are just decoration, same as ear rings for women,

ignorance is a bliss, i let you enjoy , bye