ASW

[tequilatibbs]

Are homing torpedoes for the allies a thing? Any plans if not?

[tequilatibbs]

Ha yes I meant a thing in game yet

[The cursed Jäger]

Nope. Allies have no homing torps in game. Only vessel that uses torps in game are MTBs far as I know.
We, the Germans, however can research the T5 Zaunkönig, a homing torpedo.

[s0d0]

As far as I know, no homing torpedo was ever used in the battle of the atlantic or any close-to-europe scenario on the allied side.

[Jim (VG)]

Originally posted by s0d0:

As far as I know, no homing torpedo was ever used in the battle of the atlantic or any close-to-europe scenario on the allied side.

FIDO acoustic homing torpedoes were used by the Allies to attack U-boats in the Atlantic from around May 1943.

35 U-boats are estimated to have been sunk by this weapon, for example:
https://uboat.net/boats/u467.htm

More info here: https://uboat.net/allies/technical/fido.htm

[Wyzard]

soo how does one avoid such a thing ?

[s0d0]

Originally posted by Jim (VG):

Originally posted by s0d0:

As far as I know, no homing torpedo was ever used in the battle of the atlantic or any close-to-europe scenario on the allied side.

FIDO acoustic homing torpedoes were used by the Allies to attack U-boats in the Atlantic from around May 1943.

35 U-boats are estimated to have been sunk by this weapon, for example:
https://uboat.net/boats/u467.htm

More info here: https://uboat.net/allies/technical/fido.htm

Shiesh, you never stop learning. Thanks for the link!

Originally posted by Wyzard:

soo how does one avoid such a thing ?

It has a speed of 12 kn, which is not that fast, if you are far enough away you can maybe evade it with full speed and hard diving (don't know how deep these things can go)
Or, since it is a noise seeking device, you can deploy a noise maker or just kill the engines and hope for the best. If you combine this your chances are not bad, I guess.

[tequilatibbs]

Dropped from the air so you likely would be crash diving by default and then going at 7knots. I guess if your hydrophone operator picks it up you would kill engines as only defense

[El Rushbo]

Since the speed of the FIDO was slower than a U-boat on the surface, the US took great lengths to conceal that fact. Hence why it was officially designated a Mk. 24 mine, not a torpedo. A sub launched variant called the Mark 27 "Cutie" was later developed from this. Only used operationally against the Japanese with limited success if I recall.

[Konsaki]

Originally posted by The cursed Jäger:

We, the Germans, however can research the T5 Zaunkönig, a homing torpedo.

Ah, the torpedo with the greatest Uboat kill count! Such a marvel of German engineering! XD

[wolf310ii]

Originally posted by Konsaki:

Originally posted by The cursed Jäger:

We, the Germans, however can research the T5 Zaunkönig, a homing torpedo.

Ah, the torpedo with the greatest Uboat kill count! Such a marvel of German engineering! XD

That price goes to the marvel of US engineering, the Mark 18.
There is not a single proofen case that a T5 came back and there are a few reasons why a T5 wouldnt come back.
1. it ony pick up targets in a cone in front of it and its own noise would mask anything thats behind it.
2. the detection range is only around 500m
3. it searches for specific frequency.
4. it dont start searching befor minimum 300m runtime.

[athenian]

Interesting, I did not know the Americans developed an acoustic torpedo. Thank you for that information Johnny 2000. However, considering that American subs did not operate in the Atlantic, or anywhere this game is concerned with, it wouldn't be an issue.

[tequilatibbs]

They were dropped from the air and had a few kills in the Atlantic

[athenian]

Oh that's right, air dropped. That information should be on uboat.net which lists the cause for sinking for U-boats when that info is available. Do you have an idea about what year?

[Ziggurt]

Originally posted by wolf310ii:

Originally posted by Konsaki:

Ah, the torpedo with the greatest Uboat kill count! Such a marvel of German engineering! XD

That price goes to the marvel of US engineering, the Mark 18.
There is not a single proofen case that a T5 came back and there are a few reasons why a T5 wouldnt come back.
1. it ony pick up targets in a cone in front of it and its own noise would mask anything thats behind it.
2. the detection range is only around 500m
3. it searches for specific frequency.
4. it dont start searching befor minimum 300m runtime.

Have you any documentation supporting this or is this just trust me bro source from some forum?
I have never heard or seen frequency filters being used in T5 of type that can differentiate between a submarine propeller and destroyer's propeller,

Not to mention that frequency of ship's propeller changes with change of rotations per minute (speed change) so filtering a very specific frequency range could be very counterproductive.

Secondly microphones position in warhead ensure that detection cone will not be free from interference from behind (just pointing out that only sees in the front is bit misleading). With WW2 build quality and sensor technology being finicky I could easily see torpedo picking up its own sound as strongest source and starting to go in more or less circles to "get to it".
I could totally see a sub commander seeing this and start to think that submarines have been lost to torpedoes.

Heck, even 20 years after ww2 submariners in the west did not rely on onboard torpedo sensors completely but had wires to control them.


Note that I am not saying that T5 ever sunk sub. Just bit wondering about aspects of your explanation.

[wolf310ii]

Originally posted by Ziggurt:

I have never heard or seen frequency filters being used in T5 of type that can differentiate between a submarine propeller and destroyer's propeller,

It doesnt differate between a destroyers propeller and a submarine propeller, it differate the frequency made by the propeller, the T5 searched for 24-25kHz wich equals a destroyer making 10-18kt. Without a filter, the torpedo would go for anything, its own noise, the ambiente noise, ect.

Not to mention that frequency of ship's propeller changes with change of rotations per minute (speed change) so filtering a very specific frequency range could be very counterproductive.

That was actually a problem for the T5, if the destroyer changed drasticlly the speed, the T5 would lose the target.

Secondly microphones position in warhead ensure that detection cone will not be free from interference from behind (just pointing out that only sees in the front is bit misleading). With WW2 build quality and sensor technology being finicky I could easily see torpedo picking up its own sound as strongest source and starting to go in more or less circles to "get to it".

The T5 doesnt goes just for the loudest noise, it goes for noises with specific frequencys, to cancle out interferences, and like the Hydrophones in the u-boat, it has directional microphones wich were in the T9 even improved by sitting in a cone and also changed the frequency, so the T9 would go for slow freigthers.

I could totally see a sub commander seeing this and start to think that submarines have been lost to torpedoes.

There were a few cases of MIA u-boats, wich led to speculations and suspections in the u-boat command that the T5 might be the reason, therefor the order to dive to 60m and go silent running after fireing a T5.
After the war the fates of these missing u-boats were cleared, sunk by ASW, not by own T5, only one boats cause of loss is still unknown.

Heck, even 20 years after ww2 submariners in the west did not rely on onboard torpedo sensors completely but had wires to control them.

That had nothing to do with relying on the sensors.
They used the wire control to steer the torpede into a tactical better position, away from the sub, befor turning to the target, so the ASW would look at the wrong spot for the sub, or they wire guided the torpedo into the target. Also a human operator isnt as easy to fool with decoys as a sensor in a torpedo.