UBOAT
Raf1394 Aug 20, 2022 @ 9:34am
Das Boot: Gibraltar
Everybody knows the famous scene of Das Boot, when the U-96 got hit by a British aircraft and sunk to the bottom of the Gibraltar strait.


What actually went wrong during the sinking?

I recall that one of the bombs hit the U-96, there deckgun flew off, there navigator Kriechbaum got wounded,
The Captain ordered the boat at full speed through the strait of Gibraltar, pushing the engines to the limit, i recall the Engineer saying the engines got damaged?

Then the Captain ordered a crash dive, the bowplanes got stuck, the main ballast pump was disabled and something wrong with the ballast tanks? they try to stop the sinking with putting the engines reverse speed and using compressed air.

If you think back about the situation? did they had any chance to stop the sinking? Did they sunk because of flooding (i don't remember any flooding) or did they sunk because of technical damage.
Last edited by Raf1394; Aug 20, 2022 @ 9:42am
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
wolf310ii Aug 20, 2022 @ 1:59pm 
They couldnt get the bow up again, so the deck akt like a giant dive plane.
Maybe the ballast tanks were damaged, thats the only reason i can imagine why the emergency blow didnt work, well and because its a movie.
Grisen Din Aug 21, 2022 @ 5:21am 
All i remember from that scene is the captain standing on the conning tower screaming at the waves.
EmotionallyBroken Aug 22, 2022 @ 4:07am 
Originally posted by Rafik1994:
Everybody knows the famous scene of Das Boot, when the U-96 got hit by a British aircraft and sunk to the bottom of the Gibraltar strait.


What actually went wrong during the sinking?

I recall that one of the bombs hit the U-96, there deckgun flew off, there navigator Kriechbaum got wounded,
The Captain ordered the boat at full speed through the strait of Gibraltar, pushing the engines to the limit, i recall the Engineer saying the engines got damaged?

Then the Captain ordered a crash dive, the bowplanes got stuck, the main ballast pump was disabled and something wrong with the ballast tanks? they try to stop the sinking with putting the engines reverse speed and using compressed air.

If you think back about the situation? did they had any chance to stop the sinking? Did they sunk because of flooding (i don't remember any flooding) or did they sunk because of technical damage.
I think gibralter is about 17 meters deep, so ya, they probably arent going to sink... at least not very far.
wolf310ii Aug 22, 2022 @ 4:14am 
Originally posted by EmotionallyBroken:
I think gibralter is about 17 meters deep, so ya, they probably arent going to sink... at least not very far.

The strait of gibraltar is up to 900m deep
Urfisch Aug 22, 2022 @ 12:06pm 
I think the original ktb from that patrol is online at Uboatarchive.net
davidt_man Aug 22, 2022 @ 12:23pm 
Originally posted by wolf310ii:
Originally posted by EmotionallyBroken:
I think gibralter is about 17 meters deep, so ya, they probably arent going to sink... at least not very far.

The strait of gibraltar is up to 900m deep
If I remember right the Captain mentioned they would stay close to the southern coast. If that is the case it probably saved their lives
Deerool Aug 22, 2022 @ 4:44pm 
Originally posted by FreekOly (aka Urfisch):
I think the original ktb from that patrol is online at Uboatarchive.net
Yes, it is. It was the 7th war patrol of U-96 from 27 October 1941 to 6 December 1941 and the incident starts on 30 November 1941 at 22:35.

https://uboatarchive.net/U-96/KTB96-7.htm
You have to scroll down to page 22.


The war diary is quite interesting to read. And here it also becomes clear that in the novel and in the film the situation is clearly exaggerated to make it more dramatic. The boat never fell to more than 200 meters and it did not stay under water for more than 24 hours.
After the bomb hit the submarine dived to about 20-30 meters and could be held there, but it was clear that this depth could not be held for long because the diesel engine room bilge was running full.
U-96 surfaced for the first time after about 30 minutes and ran with "Großer Fahrt" south to get into shallower waters. Due to further aircraft reports, U-96 had to dive a second time and then continued to sink despite blowing on the ballast tanks. At 80 meters it then touched down on the seabed.
After another 30 minutes, U-96 surfaced a second time. And had to dive again a short time later. It hit the bottom again with relatively high speed at a depth of 55 meters.
Last edited by Deerool; Aug 22, 2022 @ 4:46pm
hunne Aug 22, 2022 @ 5:22pm 
what went wrong (in the movie)?
full speed ahead, shell hit the dive planes which got it stuck, taking on water by multiple hits (shrapnel I guess, direct hits would´ve sunk U-96 for sure), pumps not working, one engine is out...they couldn´t get a positive angle and got lucky hitting seafloor at 280 meters

kinda a reversed USS Thresher scenario...that thing fell backwards (as in having positive angle but no forward momentum) after a failed emergency ballast blow test at design depth, which blew the piping and balast openings due to ice forming in the pipes and obstructing airflow and leading to flooding, reactor got SCRAMMED (=emergency shut down due to coolant failure being the result of shorted out circuits due to flooding as a result of mentioned failed em. blow, reactor not really recoverable at sea, would have taken hours or days to do back in 1963 afaik) - no power, crushed at around 730 meters in 1/20th of a second, lost with all hands...
almost twice the design test depth (400m)...guess WW2 vessels had similar margins for "error", that´s why (movie) U-96 barely survived (as in five, ten, twenty more meters and it would have been it)

saw declassified footage from 1986 of the Thresher wreckage today down at around 2.4km...
pretty spooky seeing bits and pieces of that mangled metal tomb
Last edited by hunne; Aug 22, 2022 @ 5:40pm
wolf310ii Aug 23, 2022 @ 12:03am 
Originally posted by hunne:
what went wrong (in the movie)?
full speed ahead, shell hit the dive planes which got it stuck, taking on water by multiple hits (shrapnel I guess, direct hits would´ve sunk U-96 for sure), pumps not working, one engine is out...they couldn´t get a positive angle and got lucky hitting seafloor at 280 meters

The flooding started after they hit the seafloor and the movie also doesnt tell wich damage came from the bombing and wich from hitting the seafloor.
The diesel ripped off the fundament from the bombing doesnt matter when they tried full reverse. The batteries could have been rippen by the bomb hit that blew the deck gun off, so the e-motors didnt had full power.
And the dive planes must have worked when diving, otherwise they would had already tried manual steering to initiate the dive.

Its odd that they couldnt get a positive angle with the aft dive planes, trimming with air and trimming with men, when there is no flooding (after sinking stoped on the seafloor, total silence in the boat until the hell break loose)
hunne Aug 23, 2022 @ 5:02am 
then why mention the pumps before that, two times...auxilliary and main?
Ballast couldn´t be blown properly either or the boat be trimmed with pr. air, all hands at stern too

should´ve fleshed that out much more in the movie but I´ve been to Bavaria Studios and went into the remaining set piece...must´ve been hell to film in there
so it´s kinda pointless of us arguing over nonexisting details coming from the footage itself :)

one diesel being ripped out and flopping around won´t allow for top speed imho, reverse or not - battery powered or not, unclear if the crankshaft etc. was damaged by this, but it was mentioned to "not rip off a welle/crankshaft" in the background...
I think a lot of other machinery was damaged, just listen to the damage report of LI afterwards.
deckgun blown off and it´s just that? no further damage as in a lot smaller holes? lol...

all that was long stated before hitting seafloor. damage was present prior to that, flooding imho too, which got worse the deeper the ship went, as seen in the aftermath...engine room was slowly filling with water already and then it got even worse when the piping blew overall the ship
Last edited by hunne; Aug 23, 2022 @ 5:07am
wolf310ii Aug 23, 2022 @ 8:09am 
Originally posted by hunne:
then why mention the pumps before that, two times...auxilliary and main?
Because trimming was usually done by pumping.
After the report that the pump doesnt work, the LI immediatlly ordered trimming with air, after that did stop the boat he ask the Captain to blow the ballast tanks.

one diesel being ripped out and flopping around won´t allow for top speed imho, reverse or not - battery powered or not, unclear if the crankshaft etc. was damaged by this, but it was mentioned to "not rip off a welle/crankshaft" in the background...
The diesel wasnt flopping around, it just wasnt fixated propperly anymore but still held in place by all the piping (exhaust, fuel, oil) and the shaft to the clutch. Keep the diesel running could cause more damage and it comming complete loose.
Submerged it has no affect on speed, submerged the diesel dont run and are disconnectet from the propeller shaft. Diesel are not batterie powered

The "not rip off a welle" was during a repair and was afaik a bolt, couldnt find the scene.
Rip the bolt off and it cant be tighten anymore to stop the leaking.

I think a lot of other machinery was damaged, just listen to the damage report of LI afterwards.
afterwards is the point, its not clear wich damage was from the attack and wich from hitting the ground.

deckgun blown off and it´s just that? no further damage as in a lot smaller holes? lol...
The boats were sturdier than you think. One of the milkcows shoot down a bomber wich then crashed into the boat, it damaged the conning tower, but didnt sunk the boat.

all that was long stated before hitting seafloor. damage was present prior to that, flooding imho too, which got worse the deeper the ship went, as seen in the aftermath...engine room was slowly filling with water already and then it got even worse when the piping blew overall the ship

No it was not, the damaged diesel was stated befor the diving, pumps and bow diveplane was during the dive all other damage was mentioned after hitting the ground.
The "flooding" showed befor the hell breaks loose was a slow drippling that would have filled one or two buckets max during the sinking and caused by the pressure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ0qjFxMsIw&list=PLlNP221fVinyRK8khw3LQZNI_VrmQ-b0Y&index=24
Raf1394 Aug 23, 2022 @ 11:57am 
There is one thing that never made any sense for me.

For some reason they still had enough compressed air left to blow the water out after the repairs, and rise back to the surface.
Did they not used all the compressed air to stop the sinking? Because the Captain desperately ordered to blow everything out, when they had no other options left.

One should think there would be no compressed air left to use...If they had some compressed air left, it would not be much...

I guess because its a movie, they had enough air left.
Last edited by Raf1394; Aug 23, 2022 @ 11:59am
Urfisch Aug 24, 2022 @ 3:01am 
Originally posted by Deerool:
Originally posted by FreekOly (aka Urfisch):
I think the original ktb from that patrol is online at Uboatarchive.net
Yes, it is. It was the 7th war patrol of U-96 from 27 October 1941 to 6 December 1941 and the incident starts on 30 November 1941 at 22:35.

https://uboatarchive.net/U-96/KTB96-7.htm
You have to scroll down to page 22.


The war diary is quite interesting to read. And here it also becomes clear that in the novel and in the film the situation is clearly exaggerated to make it more dramatic. The boat never fell to more than 200 meters and it did not stay under water for more than 24 hours.
After the bomb hit the submarine dived to about 20-30 meters and could be held there, but it was clear that this depth could not be held for long because the diesel engine room bilge was running full.
U-96 surfaced for the first time after about 30 minutes and ran with "Großer Fahrt" south to get into shallower waters. Due to further aircraft reports, U-96 had to dive a second time and then continued to sink despite blowing on the ballast tanks. At 80 meters it then touched down on the seabed.
After another 30 minutes, U-96 surfaced a second time. And had to dive again a short time later. It hit the bottom again with relatively high speed at a depth of 55 meters.

Thx for pointing out
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Date Posted: Aug 20, 2022 @ 9:34am
Posts: 13