Historical duds torpedos

[aotarolar]

Hi there.
I would like to know what was the historical percentage of defective torpedoes at the begining of the war (let´s say 1939-1940).
I have fired all the torpedos (4 bow 1 stern) and all the five were defectives. Some ocations there was 2 goods and 3 duds, but never never never all the 5 explodes.
Some ocations fired 2 torpedos and the 2 were duds.
I have heard at the beginning of the war the torpedoes were almost useless. Is that reflected on the game?

[Dewgle]

Which Torpedo Flaw difficulty did you select when you started your career? That's the first and most important question. Second being are you playing with any mods?

Also, important to note is that the minimum arming distance is 200 meters, if you try to hit a target any closer than that and they'll all be duds automatically.

[RimmerA]

It depends on what difficulty setting you select at the beginning of your game, but if you select "realistic", your torpedo failure rate will match historical figures.

If you're using early torpedoes with the Pi1 detonator:

If you use the "MZ" (magnetic) pistol, you're going to have a bad time. They were notoriously unreliable to the point that U-boat captains didn't use them.

Using the "AZ" (Impact) pistol, it needs to hit at close to a 90 degree angle (so basically straight on against the hull) or it won't detonate.

If you can find torpedoes with the revised Pi1* it gives you a bit more room for error with the impact angle. Later torpedoes with the Pi3 detonator are much more reliable and the magnetic setting works properly. You get those when you get the T3 torpedo.

Your engineers can also get a skill when they level up that prevents detonator malfunctions when they do torpedo maintenance (but dud torpedoes will still be duds).

[Grumpy Old Dude]

I use realistic torpedoes or whatever the game calls it, and i have often had all 5 hit and detonate. I have also had 3 out of 4 bow be duds. As F Gump said..sh*t happens.

[El Rushbo]

I think it was around time of the Norwegian Campaign that the major flaws in German torpedoes were corrected. An interesting side note, while the faulty detonators required an almost perfect 90 degree angle to trigger properly, the faulty detonators in the American Mark 14s worked better at a glancing angle.

[wolf310ii]

Originally posted by El Rushbo:

I think it was around time of the Norwegian Campaign that the major flaws in German torpedoes were corrected.

It was during the Norwegian campaing the flaws became obvious, the u-boats had a lot of duds during that campaign, because norway is rich on iron ore, wich affect the earth magnetic field and the MZ where too sensible.

[aotarolar]

Originally posted by 76561198037411838:

It depends on what difficulty setting you select at the beginning of your game, but if you select "realistic", your torpedo failure rate will match historical figures.

If you're using early torpedoes with the Pi1 detonator:

If you use the "MZ" (magnetic) pistol, you're going to have a bad time. They were notoriously unreliable to the point that U-boat captains didn't use them.

Using the "AZ" (Impact) pistol, it needs to hit at close to a 90 degree angle (so basically straight on against the hull) or it won't detonate.

If you can find torpedoes with the revised Pi1* it gives you a bit more room for error with the impact angle. Later torpedoes with the Pi3 detonator are much more reliable and the magnetic setting works properly. You get those when you get the T3 torpedo.

Your engineers can also get a skill when they level up that prevents detonator malfunctions when they do torpedo maintenance (but dud torpedoes will still be duds).

Originally posted by McDewgle:

Which Torpedo Flaw difficulty did you select when you started your career? That's the first and most important question. Second being are you playing with any mods?

Also, important to note is that the minimum arming distance is 200 meters, if you try to hit a target any closer than that and they'll all be duds automatically.

I am using UBE mod... and always try to keep the most realistic experience, hence my question, because I don´t mind a few duds, but 5 out of 5? 2 out of 2? 2 out of 3?

late 1939 campaign...

they hit almost at 90 degrees, impact pistol, preheated, 1000-1500 meters from the target, most of the time at 2 meters deep but sometimes at 4 meters or even 8 meters depends on the ship...

Anyway, I was just curious about the game vs reality.

[PafunaMT]

Originally posted by aotarolar:

I am using UBE mod... and always try to keep the most realistic experience, hence my question, because I don´t mind a few duds, but 5 out of 5? 2 out of 2? 2 out of 3?

late 1939 campaign...

they hit almost at 90 degrees, impact pistol, preheated, 1000-1500 meters from the target, most of the time at 2 meters deep but sometimes at 4 meters or even 8 meters depends on the ship...

Anyway, I was just curious about the game vs reality.

I think there's at least one issue going on - if you're setting your depth at greater than 2 meters, your impact angle for your impact pistol may be 90 degrees on the horizontal plane, but it will be greatly increased on the vertical plane as the ship's hull slopes away toward the keel (i.e. at 3 meters it can be 45 degrees or shallower, ship depending). This matters as I think the early war pistol setups were the whisker-trigger type pistols (Pv1 pistols), and I think that the impact angle affecting detonation odds is modeled in the game. An increased impact angle means a greater chance for duds, obviously, both on horizontal and vertical planes.

McDewgle had a great write-up about it, far better than mine, he should weigh in on this, too.

For impact pistols, set your torpedo depth at at a maximum of 1.5 meters, or the minimum 1 meter. The shallowest depth means the vertical impact angle should be close to 90.

For your magnetic pistols, set your depth between .5 and 1 meter below draught depth, which is listed in your identification book for each ship.

Hope it helps.

[El Rushbo]

I know they changed the issue in the game, but early torpedoes also had problems with their depth-keeping always running deeper than the setting. Courtesy of the system being calibrated to the test payload, not the heavier warhead. Skippers were ordered to use the minimum depth setting until that could be fixed.

A standard rule for any military: Your equipment was manufactured by the lowest bidder.

[Deerool]

Originally posted by aotarolar:

...
Anyway, I was just curious about the game vs reality.

Here is a little discription of the so called "Torpedo Krise" (Torpedo Crisis) during the Norwegian Invasion on April 1940 (Operation "Weserübung" ).

Given the large number of torpedo failures during the invasion of Norway, the culmination of individual cases in the context of individual undertakings by individual boats became a systemic failure - the torpedo crisis. It was subsequently estimated that if the torpedoes had worked, at least one battleship, seven cruisers, seven destroyers and several transport ships would have been hit. The main task of the submarines patrolling off the Norwegian coast was to prevent Allied troops from landing. However, despite massing of enemy ships and good firing positions, with one exception, no effective torpedo hits could be scored in Norwegian waters. Here, both magnetic and impact fuzes failed.

Before this Operation an analysis by the BdU concluded that in March 1940, of a total of 52 torpedoes fired, only 10 had failed.

In the course of "Unternehmen Weserübung", several submarine commanders reported a strange lack of success in attacks with what should have been a safe starting position. Viktor Schütze, commander of U 25 fired two torpedoes at close range at the British destroyer force returning from Narvik, but scored no hits. The four torpedoes from U 51 aimed at the same target also did nothing. Over the next few hours, complaints from submarine commanders increased, reporting misfires or premature firings, eventually adding up to a 66% failure rate."

That means two U-Boats firing six torpedoes and all six were failures. So the game is very accurate compared with reality. You didn't do anything wrong. You just only have bad luck with your torpedoes.

But it is remarkable that not only the Germans had problems with their Torpedoes. The Americans have had them although.

The great Torpedo Scandal

Like the Germans with the torpedo crisis, the U.S. also had persistent problems with the frequent failure of torpedoes during World War II. The U.S. Navy's torpedo scandal extended over a long period between December 1941 and August 1943. The roots, however, go back even further.

The depth control as well as the magnetic and the impact fuse of the then current steam gas powered submarine torpedo Mk 14 of the U.S. Navy were affected, but also torpedoes of the older type Mk 10 had problems in some cases. The torpedo scandal started in 1943.

On 23 July 1943, for example, the USS Tinosa fired a total of 15 torpedoes at the Japanese whaler and oil tanker Tonan Maru 3, of which 12 hit but only one exploded (according to other sources, all 15 hit but none exploded).

It is estimated that by the summer of 1943, about 70% of torpedoes fired by American submarines were duds.

[SpiffyGonzales]

I have all my stuff set to historical. Gotta remember that you need to MAINTAIN those torpedos. if you havn't done so in a while I'd recommend getting your dude to do maintenence before you open fire. Unfortunately that means that if theres a large fleet you'll proably have to abandon mission since it can take a while.

[El Rushbo]

It didn't help that the US manufacturers had some powerful lobbyists in congress. While skippers claim the torpedoes malfunctioned, the manufacturers claimed they simply weren't aiming them properly. Because of the aforementioned lobby, the US was slow in launching an official investigation, otherwise these problems could've been found earlier potentially leading to the war ending sooner than it did.

[RimmerA]

Originally posted by El Rushbo:

It didn't help that the US manufacturers had some powerful lobbyists in congress. While skippers claim the torpedoes malfunctioned, the manufacturers claimed they simply weren't aiming them properly. Because of the aforementioned lobby, the US was slow in launching an official investigation, otherwise these problems could've been found earlier potentially leading to the war ending sooner than it did.

It was even worse than that. The Navy's Bureau of Ordnance also didn't want to admit there were problems and that they sent the torpedoes out with zero testing. And they blocked efforts to investigate reports that they were running at the wrong depth, detonators were malfunctioning, and the like. It was a ♥♥♥♥ show all around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ5Ru7Zu_1I

[TumblrGoose]

Could be mod issue. I never have all dud.

[Deerool]

Or you're just a lucky guy. Maybe you should select a new emblem for your boat. I suggest the emblem from U 306. A four leaf clover with a horse shoe. 😁😁

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/9a37de_6fe05b7dc63f47b0ba2ef4b491441b2b~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_1214,h_683,q_90/9a37de_6fe05b7dc63f47b0ba2ef4b491441b2b~mv2.jpg

The "all duds" happened to me twice. One time I shot a three torpedo fan on a C3. All Torpedoes hit the target but none explodes. The second one was a four torpedo shot on two targets (two torpedoes on each target.). One explode too early on the half way to target so the second Eel miss because the freighter starts to evade right after explosion. The second target was hit by two torpedoes but no explosion at all.
And I play vanilla (besides the great "UBE Emblems Expanded" Mod from Jim. But this shouldn't affect the torpedo failures.)

[El Rushbo]

I suppose the possibility of enemy sabotage could play a part. Since a lot of German production utilized slave labor, that doesn't make for a happy, motivated work force.