County class is too tough.

[boris.glevrk]

Just had one who refuse to sink after 5 torpedo hits.
The first three dealt <15% damage altogether despite hitting hull in two different places and one T5 hit on the engine.
The last two both are T5 and hit the engine. They are effective but the ship still refuses to sink.

I tried to F11, twice, each time I had to re-type this whole thing, and yet it fails to send.

This NEEDS to be fixed. Not even a Nelson can take that many torpedo.

[Aussie Enki]

The Torpedo Threat

During World War II, submarine and aircraft-dropped torpedoes sank hundreds of merchant ships and warships. Unlike the numerous aerial bombs or cannon shells required to sink large warships, just one or two torpedo hits could and sometimes did suffice to sink huge aircraft carriers and battleships.

[Lite_ly Salted]

New build? I've sank County with 3 before. Could be a bug.

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by Lite_ly Salted:

New build? I've sank County with 3 before. Could be a bug.

Yeah it's in the latest B129 Preview whatever that number is.
Back in B128 I've already feel that County is tougher than it should be, but back then the battleship takes up to 8 torpedoes to sink so it was less significant.

Now you can sink a Nelson with 3 torps and an Illustrious with one, it becomes very absurd that you can't sink a County with 5.

[Sabre_One]

My beef with the County Class isn't toughness, but the insignificant reward for sinking one. The first time I sank a County Class I passed on several other convoy ships thinking it would be the gem. Three torpedoes spent for what? 1500-2000 reward? (I forgot the actual amount, but it was a tiny pittance.) As a cruiser, the reward should be at least equal (if not greater) than a merchant vessel of similar tonnage.

[Aussie Enki]

Originally posted by Sabre_One:

My beef with the County Class isn't toughness, but the insignificant reward for sinking one. The first time I sank a County Class I passed on several other convoy ships thinking it would be the gem. Three torpedoes spent for what? 1500-2000 reward? (I forgot the actual amount, but it was a tiny pittance.) As a cruiser, the reward should be at least equal (if not greater) than a merchant vessel of similar tonnage.

its all about Merchant ships, not warships. the goal is to starve a country of all supplies.

[Sabre_One]

Originally posted by Proton:

Originally posted by Sabre_One:

My beef with the County Class isn't toughness, but the insignificant reward for sinking one. The first time I sank a County Class I passed on several other convoy ships thinking it would be the gem. Three torpedoes spent for what? 1500-2000 reward? (I forgot the actual amount, but it was a tiny pittance.) As a cruiser, the reward should be at least equal (if not greater) than a merchant vessel of similar tonnage.

its all about Merchant ships, not warships. the goal is to starve a country of all supplies.

True. I get that. Strategically, the main focus of the War in the Atlantic was supply chain interruption. But the Kriegsmarine was also pretty big in honoring uboats who sunk naval vessels when opportunity permitted.

[PafunaMT]

Originally posted by Sabre_One:

Originally posted by Proton:

its all about Merchant ships, not warships. the goal is to starve a country of all supplies.

True. I get that. Strategically, the main focus of the War in the Atlantic was supply chain interruption. But the Kriegsmarine was also pretty big in honoring uboats who sunk naval vessels when opportunity permitted.

The game does offer a healthy point bonus towards your prestige, meaning medals, for sinking cruisers and larger warships, much larger than the standard merchants or smaller warships (think destroyers and corvettes). I think that reflects the KM's high prestige placed on commanders who did manage to sink such ships.

But in terms of the monetary reward, not so much, which reflects the strategic emphasis on merchants. For my part, unless a warship sails right in front of my sub, I usually don't bother with warships anymore and save my torpedoes for C3s and Liberty ships.

As far as the County-class cruisers go, I just sank a County-class today with 2 standard-issue T1 torpedoes, and have encountered no issues with the other cruiser classes, either. Not sure what to make of 5 hits and no prize.

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by Proton:

Originally posted by Sabre_One:

My beef with the County Class isn't toughness, but the insignificant reward for sinking one. The first time I sank a County Class I passed on several other convoy ships thinking it would be the gem. Three torpedoes spent for what? 1500-2000 reward? (I forgot the actual amount, but it was a tiny pittance.) As a cruiser, the reward should be at least equal (if not greater) than a merchant vessel of similar tonnage.

its all about Merchant ships, not warships. the goal is to starve a country of all supplies.

Cruisers is the only class of military ships that doesn't give reward relevant to difficulty of sinking.
DDs give 2200-ish reward while being about as difficult to sink as a medium sized merchant, plus being the biggest threat to you.
CVs can be sunk as quickly as one torp, and gives a whooping 7500 reward.
BBs take 3-5 torps to sink and gives I think around 10k reward.

Cruisers is literally the only problematic one. they are almost as difficult to sink as a battleship but gives little more reward than a DD.

[RimmerA]

I recall that the County Class being too touch was one of the bugs fixed in a previous release. Perhaps you need to clear your cache?

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by RimmerA:

I recall that the County Class being too touch was one of the bugs fixed in a previous release. Perhaps you need to clear your cache?

Well it WAS fixed, just not completely. In B128 a county can take 10+ torp to sink, now it takes "just" five. But that's still too many.

[Snork]

Let me recommend to you the sinking physics overhaul mod.

Rather than sinking based on any sort of health bar which is nonsensical and the most outdated concept in videogaming as a whole, the ships sink based on the location of the hole your torpedo made - the size of that hole and how many compartments are guaranteed to flood as a result.

This gets weighed against their crews ability to do repairs/stick fingers in boat holes.

Using this mod, things sink in a way that you'd expect them to logically.

You still may occasionally get a glancing blow, but I actually sunk a french battleship with a single torpedo not long ago.

Sure, that won't happen every time, but you way more get the sense that you're hurling extremely large quantities of explosive at them below their waterline.

And ships like C3s and such, even if they take more than one hit to sink, one hit is way more likely to send them into a tailspin of uselessness.

Try that mod out, it may be exactly what you're needing.

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by Snork:

Let me recommend to you the sinking physics overhaul mod.

Rather than sinking based on any sort of health bar which is nonsensical and the most outdated concept in videogaming as a whole, the ships sink based on the location of the hole your torpedo made - the size of that hole and how many compartments are guaranteed to flood as a result.

This gets weighed against their crews ability to do repairs/stick fingers in boat holes.

Using this mod, things sink in a way that you'd expect them to logically.

You still may occasionally get a glancing blow, but I actually sunk a french battleship with a single torpedo not long ago.

Sure, that won't happen every time, but you way more get the sense that you're hurling extremely large quantities of explosive at them below their waterline.

And ships like C3s and such, even if they take more than one hit to sink, one hit is way more likely to send them into a tailspin of uselessness.

Try that mod out, it may be exactly what you're needing.

I thought that mod makes sinking even harder, so I didn't consider it?

[Black Dog]

Where did you strike with your torpedoes? Impact pistols hitting at the standard 1,5m depths do a lot less damage than hitting them at a depth of 8m or with magnetic pistols just below the keel

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by Black Dog:

Where did you strike with your torpedoes? Impact pistols hitting at the standard 1,5m depths do a lot less damage than hitting them at a depth of 8m or with magnetic pistols just below the keel

First of all, my experience would already disagree with that.

I usually go at 2.5-3m depth, and sometimes the torpedoes may still pass through below the ship, which is supposedly 5m+ draught.
And for T5 torps I can go to 5m depth and it actually deals LESS damage than a 2m impact torp.

[Snork]

It doesn't make sinking harder, it makes it sometimes take longer - but just time wise. Effort wise, it requires way less from you because the lean towards realism means for most ships one torp and sinking is inevitable. Just not weirdly instant. because it's no longer a binary event triggered at 0 health.

In the case of the game, it makes sinking easier, sometimes you may just need to wait a bit more.

But it prevents you having to deal with BS like... well, I hit them for 99% and because they aren't dead, it means they are FULLY FUNCTIONAL. And off they run.

Even if a torpedo didn't sink a ship, there were very few ever struck by one that weren't crippled by it. Either literally or by way of forcing all of the attention to be focused on not sinking once it happened.

That mod does a great job demonstrating this.

So yeah sometimes sinking takes longer, but not in the way you'd think. One torp and most things are f*cked, it may take a while for them to fill entirely with water and lose buoyancy, but that's what we have time acceleration for.

And it's worth the extra time for the otherwise way more realistic results of getting hit like that.

I've never hit anything that wasn't crippled by one.

Though some C3s have been difficult to get to finally sink, but those things are just huge cavernous airpockets surrounded with a thin film of metal.

Worst case scenario I just hit them with another torp while they're already turned over on their sides. And it's easy because a ship can't go very far laying on one side.