Mutiny

[bartz]

Would you like that? Either some mechanism connected with discipline/fatigue, or (more preferably) something more advanced connected to decision making and playstyle. Would have to be reversible so not to break the whole campaign of course... Give back your thoughts!

*AFAIK this topic has not yet been discussed?

[PafunaMT]

Eh... not so sure - I don't recall any cases of mutiny within the Kriegsmarine during the entire war, and given the culture and history of the Heer since Frederick the Great, it's really not very likely. Subs by and large really didn't have greatly extended patrols or journeys that could foment a discipline breakdown over long periods of time that would lead to a mutiny...

But... maybe if discipline falls far enough repeatedly over time, a UBoat commander would be relieved? Transferred? Officers too? Not sure how much effort a model like this would take, but maybe something akin?

Food for thought in any case, I reckon.

[captainpanda34]

German+NAZI=impossible. firing herr kaleun if he's not successfull enough and promote the 2nd would be interesting. Random officers nervous breakdown or incompetency would be interesting too to manage at sea :D

[bartz]

Originally posted by captainpanda34:

Random officers nervous breakdown or incompetency would be interesting too to manage at sea :D

Maybe something like this, i guess it could be implemented through the dialogue events. Mostly randomly, but some decisions would need to be taken - the even line could develop in a way leading to some debuffs for example. Could balance this with some buffs? Interesting idea.

[Sputnik]

Yes, the mutiny portrayed in the Das Boot TV series seemed very unlikely (Otherwise a pretty good take on the period I thought).

Mutiny is a BIG no-no in Navies, and feared by all ranks, unsurprisingly, The most recent that comes to mind was the battleship Potemkin over century ago, and that took the collapse of the entire Russian state to provoke.

But I suppose when a war is in its final stages, and desperate missions are being assigned by the losing admiralty, then mutiny could become conceivable.

[Hal8000]

No. U-boat crews didn't mutiny.

[Sputnik]

That settles it then

[bartz]

Mkay then

[Indvstrial Black]

Hmm... mutineer life as a German speaker. Stay in Europe, get shot. Leave Europe, get shot. Pretty easy choice.

[bartz]

Originally posted by Kaos:

Hmm... mutineer life as a German speaker. Stay in Europe, get shot. Leave Europe, get shot. Pretty easy choice.

Not really. Lots of german soldiers defected even to US. Not to mention many sxperts and scientists that were dispatched throughout the world after WW2, like Wernher von Braun etc

[Trygger]

I think having zero discipline should have more severe consequences.

[Indvstrial Black]

Originally posted by bartz:

Originally posted by Kaos:

Hmm... mutineer life as a German speaker. Stay in Europe, get shot. Leave Europe, get shot. Pretty easy choice.

Not really. Lots of german soldiers defected even to US. Not to mention many sxperts and scientists that were dispatched throughout the world after WW2, like Wernher von Braun etc

If you made it through Rhine Meadows then yeah, you get to live in the USA. Not sure what the US did with sub surrenders but most of the Wehrmacht surrenders didn't go well.

Best option was to take your uboat to Argentina and retire.

[Flash Gordon]

The mutineers couldn't survive unless the officers where in on it. Without a navigator, they're screwed. Not to mention in Nazi Germany, their families might be tortured and killed. Once you cross that line, there's no coming back. They could defect, but again, without a navigator, they would never get to where they would want to go. Ever heard of Mutiny on the Bounty?
In 1789 Fletcher Christian lead a mutiny on the HMS Bounty. The Mutineers put the Com Officer, Bligh and the officers who were loyal to him on a row boat. Long story short, The Mutineers split. With some of the them staying in Tahiti, and the others settled on Pitcairn Island and burned the Bounty. Bligh survived and went back to England to report it. An American seal hunting ship discovered Pitcairn island in 1808 and found only one mutineer still alive. Nobody knows what happen to the rest. Probably killed each other. The British sent out warships and found 14 of the mutineers in Tahiti, arrested them, intended to bring them back to England to be hanged. But the Ship was wrecked along the way, and everybody was killed, including the Mutineers.
A sad fate, or maybe poetic justice.

[El Rushbo]

Originally posted by bartz:

Not to mention many sxperts and scientists that were dispatched throughout the world after WW2, like Wernher von Braun etc

That's more because Nazi scientists were a hot commodity at the start of the Cold War. Either we give them a safe shelter or the Soviets did. And both sides wanted their expertise.

[wildblu]

The last German navy mutiny that occurred was in 1918 when sailors from the High Seas Fleet refused to follow orders. The Kiel Mutiny contributed significantly to the end of WWI. I doubt that you had that in mind.
Besides, a mutiny on a submarine would mean heading to a neutral or allied port and the mutineers seeking asylum. The remaining crew is then either interned or become prisoners-of-war, which means the campaign ends. Heck, even if the skipper gets the ship back from the mutineers, he'll face court-martial and his career could potentially be over. I just don't see an upside.

[Sputnik]

Mutiny a great idea for naval a game mechanic. But perhaps not for this game which seems to play it pretty straight with the history.