Turns out I may be a terrible person

[YaBoiBeanz]

Reading the wikipedia entry about U-571 (the movie, not the actual sub) when suddenly;

"...The film was also criticized for portraying German U-boat crews in a negative light by showing them gunning down Allied survivors instead of giving them assistance or taking them aboard as prisoners."

So we're not suppose to surface and use the flak cannons to take out the life rafts ensuring no survivors? Then what's even the point of shooting their boat?! They'll just go get on another one!

I jest, of course, I generally RP very terrible characters when given the choice even though I wouldn't do a 1/3 of the things I do in games. In this case, I wouldn't even be a member of the Kriegsmarine. I just had to laugh after reading that line in light of how I played this game.

[Macro]

Its a game.

Asides of that it would be a war crime.you would be taken care and in custoty and be executed aka you would have a visit from a millitary tribunal and you will be shot shortly after that .

And as far as I know there was only a order given for survivors later in the war called the Laconia-Befehl (Triton Null) also known to not to help survivors of sunk ships.

At the Beginning of the uboot war the crews helped survivors and took POWs..there are reports on both sides that they treated them well.They also had in mind if they got sunk the other side might help at that time. the main mission of u-boat captain was to sink ship space .not to be a unnecessary cruel horribe person .

[AgataKoko]

>The film was also criticized

I can't wait to see another film, portraying brave American pilots as a heroes, during their danger mission to destroy surfaced U-156. What a show it'll be!

[BHunterSEAL]

I don't know of any incidents where U-boats intentionally attacked survivors of a sinking who were not engaged in any hostile acts against the submarine (i.e. firing small arms).* In WWI, and the early stages of WWII, it was common for U-boats to fish crewmen out of the water and help them onto launches, render medical attention, and provide food supplies to the survivors. You can probably tell from the game that there isn't much space aboard a Type VII (or any sub, other than maybe a Typhoon) so generally only Captains / Masters or Chief Engineers were taken prisoner.

However, the combination of dramatically-expanding Allied air coverage and the Laconia episode led to a standing order which prohibited any provision of assistance to survivors. The 1942 incident saw American bombers attack a U-boat after it openly broadcast its coordinates and a request for assistance in rescuing several hundred British servicemen.

The U-571 account of German sailors ruthlessly gunning-down survivors is absolutely, totally fictitious. One of many things about that film which was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Check out Mark Felton's excellent video on the capture of a U-boat and its Enigma machine for the true story, which is far more interesting than the movie and quite dramatic as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw1wz1e5FBo

In Adm. Karl Donitz's trial at Nuremburg, it was determined that 1) No orders were ever given for U-boats to kill surviving crew and 2) Although the failure to render aid was technically a violation of the 'cruiser rules' codified after WWI, the court held that both British and American submarine warfare was unrestricted and therefore Donitz was not sentenced for the violation. Chester Nimitz himself testified in defense of unrestricted submarine warfare.

*Edit: I googled it; this is only thought to have happened on one occasion, when a U-boat was en-route to a secret mission in the Indian Ocean and killed survivors while ostensibly attempting to destroy a ship's wreckage to prevent any radio call alerting the Allies to its presence. Many sailors were killed and all U-boat's officer complement tried and executed after the war.

[Urfisch]

Since the first conflicts in mankind: Rules are made by the winners and they also write the history :) Even today, although its not that easy any more. You always get a better insight, when speaking with eye-witnesses or read from sources with different perspectives taken. Btw, war is never "fair" or correct, its when young men try to survive in battles, that where started from old men.

[LetGodSortThemOut]

Originally posted by Freekoly (🎨+🔧):

war is never "fair" or correct, its when young men try to survive in battles, that where started from old men.

War and Procreation. The basis of existence. What a dichotomy!

[YaBoiBeanz]

Originally posted by Macro:

you would have a visit from a millitary tribunal and you will be shot shortly after that.

"Nah, I dont think so, more like 'chewed out'. I been chewed out before."

https://youtu.be/rj6ikN2O364?t=104

Originally posted by Freekoly (🎨+🔧):

Since the first conflicts in mankind: Rules are made by the winners and they also write the history :)

Sooooo what you're saying is, I'm not killing ENOUGH survivors. If I wipe out all allied survivors then we write history to say we're doing it "to spread democracy" or some such BS. :P

Originally posted by BHunterSEAL:

The U-571 account of German sailors ruthlessly gunning-down survivors is absolutely, totally fictitious. One of many things about that film which was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Check out Mark Felton's excellent video on the capture of a U-boat and its Enigma machine for the true story, which is far more interesting than the movie and quite dramatic as well:

Just before the line I quoted, the wikipedia article mentions major criticism for rewriting a major point in the war to make the Americans look good. i.e. It was the Brits who captured the enigma before we even entered the war but the movie seems to overwrite that, if even accidentally.

[athenian]

Well, lingering about to shoot survivors does expose your boat and crew to danger. The latter woild be especially true near coastal areas where you could be attacked by aircraft from nearby bases. So lingering around the attack area was risky and U-boat captains only surfaced after attacks if they needed information, or a confirmation of the ship's name and tonnage. Donitz flatly refused Hitler's request to gun down survivors based on principle. Also, crews did not really matter that much because if Germany could get her target for 150 ships/month, the Brits could simply not built more ships fast enough to put the crews back on them. There is only ONE incident of war crimes involving Kptl. Eck (U-852 I believe) and the Greek steamer Peleus. Eck and two of his officers were executed by firing squad after the war. Of course you can go ahead and play as you like!

[Bobby]

Well considering it's the dev's that focused the AI crew on the life rafts and not yourself, i was dumb founded when i first seen this before xmas. Imagine running this past a classification board Here's an 88 to take out a rubber boat full of petrified crew. Next patch is rubber boat with crew and deck gun to fire back at the sub! lol

[Macro]

Originally posted by prp426:

Originally posted by Macro:

you would have a visit from a millitary tribunal and you will be shot shortly after that.

"Nah, I dont think so, more like 'chewed out'. I been chewed out before."

https://youtu.be/rj6ikN2O364?t=104

you watch too many movies or? .just don't believe hollywood bulls h it .there are highly fictional movie bulls h it included in many movies .movies are only just movies .and nothing else

[YaBoiBeanz]

Originally posted by athenian:

There is only ONE incident of war crimes involving Kptl. Eck (U-852 I believe) and the Greek steamer Peleus. Eck and two of his officers were executed by firing squad after the war.

I'm going to look this up later after BHunterSeal's video they linked. Like you both I am very interested in the history.

Originally posted by Bobby:

Well considering it's the dev's that focused the AI crew on the life rafts and not yourself, i was dumb founded when i first seen this before xmas.

Are you saying your AI sailors will fire at the lifeboats unprompted? I never noticed. Honestly I tried shooting them once or twice to see what would happen but either the hits do nothing, I couldn't tell from my distance, or I was completely missing.

Originally posted by Macro:

you watch too many movies or? .just don't believe hollywood bulls h it .there are highly fictional movie bulls h it included in many movies .movies are only just movies .and nothing else

Yes, I'm aware. This whole thread was started by pointing out hollywood BS. The reference to Inglorious Basterds was clearly a joke because it was Brad Pitt's response to Christopher Waltz's character saying almost exactly what you did ("YOU'LL BE SHOT FOR THIS!")

[mazdamundi]

U-571 was a far cry from Das-boat

[YaBoiBeanz]

To be fair, that's a high bar. The Command is the only ever sub movie I've seen that's come close.

Though, I haven't seen The Hunt for Red October, and when I last saw Das Boot I was a youngun, so I barely remember it.

[kenberg]

There is heinz wilhelm eck in the U-852 and the the peleus incident,

In the pacific theater from mid 1944 tell the end of the war us fleet boats would sink japanese junk boat's with deck guns and 20-40mm aa guns,

And some have said that this is a war crime but junk boat's were most of the time hard to sink do to many of them haveing good to great positive buoyancy even with heavy cargo,

And i have read some tin foil hat conspiracies were us fleet boat's used bar's and thompson's to sink junk boat's and kill japanese survivor's in the water,

I have read that most of the time it toke hundreds of 20mm round's from the aa gun's to sink junk boat's and or 3-4 clip's of 40mm round's so it is not like'y for a bar or thompson to sink a junk boat,

But just like heinz wilhelm eck were he spent more then 5 hours shoting at peleus survivor's some of the us fleet boat's may have been doing something similar and were jump't by japanese air or surface patrol's,

Leading to a large number of us fleet boat's sunk or missing but this is tin foil hat conspiracies and speculation.

[Keeper]

Hahahah sorry I shouldn't laugh.. I *tried* killin em.. gave up after a good hour or so.. ramming them on the way off.. also :/ they ded either way

[YaBoiBeanz]

Originally posted by Keeper:

Hahahah sorry I shouldn't laugh.. I *tried* killin em.. gave up after a good hour or so.. ramming them on the way off.. also :/ they ded either way

There are two types of people: those who tried killing survivors just to see if the game would let them do it, and boring people who don't know how to play video games. LOL

Originally posted by the Kozma:

>The film was also criticized

I can't wait to see another film, portraying brave American pilots as a heroes, during their danger mission to destroy surfaced U-156. What a show it'll be!

Found these last night my dude.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7esQ9S46EJY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijoHGhSDSls

From what I could tell it's not 100% accurate but it gets pretty close. Enjoy! (Athenian and BHunterSeal, you might enjoy it as well.)