Guide for Manual TDC (Using Mapwork or Attack Tools)

[Rich8®]

Hi guys,I made my first ever guide for people interested in using/ trying to use the TDC without telling the crew to auto solve for torpedo intercepts. The focus is using map work and/or the periscope tools to obtain a good amount of the information needed to fire your torpedoes. I've found that the tools in the game are just enough to be able to get what you need to find course, speed and distance.

The main reason I was using mapwork at first was to avoid using the Course tool in the manual TDC. I used to think it was bugged because I thought it was supposed to match the course of ownship but thanks to T. I understand it's use, so now I show how to use the TDC with mapwork or only using the periscope tools. The small size of the course tool does bother me though. I have to struggle trying to read compass bearings as well as AOB numbers.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1735292990

[ZombieHunter]

I don't like entering course and I would rather enter in AOB manually. I don't really care about course except to position myself 1500 yards abeam somewhere along that vector. I would rather put in AOB b/c this is a very simple thing to do.

[Ruby]

Hi,

Good Job!

 I ignore the time in the top of the screen, since it's only in ten's of minutes. 
(Why they would choose to do this, I don't know.)

I don´t understand either!


Cheers Ruby

[Rich8®]

Originally posted by ZombieHunter:

I don't like entering course and I would rather enter in AOB manually. I don't really care about course except to position myself 1500 yards abeam somewhere along that vector. I would rather put in AOB b/c this is a very simple thing to do.

I would too, but as I state in the videos, the AOB tool seems to not only be bugged for me, but it's extremely small for me and I can't read the indications on the tool.

[Hyperserver]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqFEZ1yGbEQ
another method to manual TDC (imho a bit easier, but you need a longer sight contact)

[Rich8®]

And I've tried this, but like I said the AOB tool is bugged for me and I also can't read it because it's so tiny.

[Phantomox]

i spent quite some time with this,and,i believe you are correct that the course tool is inaccurate
i tend to use the protractor to get course angle

i also use time over distance to calc speed.

all this may be by design of course,as captain skill greatly improves the success rate.
but it may be bugged too.

i did notice that success rate greatly improves under 3km,i rarely miss,over 3km the odds diminish.

[T.]

its not bugged!!!
but its not as easy as in the video.

In the video (the one posted in comments) there is missing a big part although it works exactly like this in his situation. He hits the target because his bow is pointing at the target at 0 degree.
You can see it at the white plastic thing which also is the bearing of your scope.
They are always the same.

But when you have your target on eg your 45, the plastic will be pointing to NE (45degrees) and also you bearing on the scope would be 45. Then you have to align the "boat" in the tool relative to the plastic thing which is kinda hard only to do in head cause you would have to turn it by imagination.

what you can do is align the boat relative to the Northpole on the tool like if you would when approaching it at 0 degrees. Like the guy in the video did. Then you have to add or substract the difference from northpole to the plasticthingy (scope baring)

had a lot of headache till i figured it out.

hardest part still is to actually align it. iam always 5-10degrees off.
(if you want to check your manual alignment do it like "CPL Rich8" with you map tools or you let your officers estimate the course and "overwrite" it afterwards )

[Pyrrhus]

3km? Is that for submerge or surface attack? How small is the environment in this game?

In vanilla SH3, environment is limited at 8km, that means ships can only be spotted and computed under than that distance, 5km at best, and visibility is 300-400m during rainy weather. That limited environment makes me felt like I'm wearing very tight undersized jeans squeezing my balls out cuz destoyers escorting conveys can easily see or hear me when I was attempting doing surface attack.

But with GWX mod, environment is 16km, ships can be spotted around 13km on nice night making it great for surface attack using steam torpedoes that can reach 12km away, I always hit my targets while they aren't spooked as zig zaging. And visibility is 600-700m during rainy weather.

So if you mean 3km due to environment visibility or TDC issue?

[Hyperserver]

Originally posted by Pyrrhus:

But with GWX mod, environment is 16km, ships can be spotted around 13km on nice night making it great for surface attack using steam torpedoes that can reach 12km away, I always hit my targets while they aren't spooked as zig zaging. And visibility is 600-700m during rainy weather.

why even play such a game if you mod it for that amount off-realism?
of course a T1 can reach 12km, but only at speed of 33 knots - with 44 knots its just 6km.
33 knots = around 60 km/h -> 12 km range will be 12 Minutes until hit.
thats incredible far to get a hit - mostly sure for a miss, because a torpedo T1 is just steered on the first few seconds, then run straight. Over 12 km you are never able to get a torpedo (T1) on hit a target (modern Torpedos which are steered over the whole way of course can hit even after such an range).
A adult person can see up to 5 km on calm sea (curvature of the earth). you may see up to range of 20 km if you are on a 30m mast (and also just on good weather). So 16 km enviroment LOS on uboat is also not realism.
And remember: to "see" means "to see that there is something" - not to see WHAT exactly there is - to identify you need to be much more close.
and finally: ".... In vanilla SH3 ...." -> why on earth do you all compare uboat with SH3? Its an old game and also its just a GAME which drifts away from realism as hell. Let modern games have modern gameplay - and realism is something the majority wants to have.

EDIT:
if you want to calculate yourself (see Internet/earth radius/pythagoras/sight/curvature of the earth)
x= 3.57 * SQRT(h)
x: maximum sight in kilometer
h: eye-height above surface

[Pyrrhus]

Before radar, destroyers still can detect sub on surface as instant in SH3 vanilla right after sub emerge at edge of visibility for surface attack during night. Reality, uboat is very small and thin, harder to see, even harder at night, but not for hostiles in SH3 vanilla. If the range and detection system for destroyers are the same in this game then 3km environment isn't safe for surface attack. Maybe that's why 16km environment was created for that reason.

[Rich8®]

Originally posted by T.:

its not bugged!!!
but its not as easy as in the video.

In the video (the one posted in comments) there is missing a big part although it works exactly like this in his situation. He hits the target because his bow is pointing at the target at 0 degree.
You can see it at the white plastic thing which also is the bearing of your scope.
They are always the same.

But when you have your target on eg your 45, the plastic will be pointing to NE (45degrees) and also you bearing on the scope would be 45. Then you have to align the "boat" in the tool relative to the plastic thing which is kinda hard only to do in head cause you would have to turn it by imagination.

what you can do is align the boat relative to the Northpole on the tool like if you would when approaching it at 0 degrees. Like the guy in the video did. Then you have to add or substract the difference from northpole to the plasticthingy (scope baring)

had a lot of headache till i figured it out.

hardest part still is to actually align it. iam always 5-10degrees off.
(if you want to check your manual alignment do it like "CPL Rich8" with you map tools or you let your officers estimate the course and "overwrite" it afterwards )

Ahhhhhhh, why is it so hard to wrap my head around that dumb little plastic strip mannn!! lol

Okay so you're telling me that the plastic strip is not, in reality, tied to magnetic bearing, but relative to what bearing the target is at from your boat?

Because I thought the purpose of the tool was to have the plastic thing represent your course, and then when looking at the target, you judge AOB to then determine the course of what you're looking at. But I've not been able to do that in game. So I'm gonna hop on and place my bow on contacts and see what happens.

I really would like this guide to include multiple methods for all degrees of manual TDC work. But that attack disc thing is the most difficult tool I've ever used lol

[T.]

Originally posted by EASY TWB CPL. Rich8:

Okay so you're telling me that the plastic strip is not, in reality, tied to magnetic bearing, but relative to what bearing the target is at from your boat?

yes, exactly.

[Rich8®]

Originally posted by T.:

Originally posted by EASY TWB CPL. Rich8:

Okay so you're telling me that the plastic strip is not, in reality, tied to magnetic bearing, but relative to what bearing the target is at from your boat?

yes, exactly.

I updated the guide with info on that thanks to you

[ZombieHunter]

Yes the strip is relative to your boat. But AOB is still much much simpler. We don't really care about course except to get ahead and find the ideal attack area. We do care about AOB. My ideal attack is 270 or 90 AOB, 1000 yards @ Periscope depth. 4 torps, 5 degree spread. Guaranteed hit.

I will still attack with AOBs of 45 - 90, 90 - 135, 225 - 270 and 270 - 315 but most others not within these ranges I will re-position to get a better shot. This leaves me with 2 180 degree arcs starboard and port within which I will fire.

I do not constantly track my targets. I know what the angles are when I am going to fire so I pre-calculate them and enter the data into the system. I do not need many observations once I begin the attack process and calculations. Convoys don't seem to zig-zag much in this game yet and even in SH4 they only zig-zagged about twice in 30 minutes. So that leaves you with a nice window of opportunity where AOB and speed are not changing. I learned from SH3 and SH4 regardless of torpedo nationality that 1000 to 1500 yards is a pretty good shot. Anything more and it becomes dicey and anything less and your torpedo likely won't arm. Anything under 800 and it will be a dud due to not arming.

I don't think some here are very experience sub-simmers and are trying ridiculous AOB shots like 315 to 45 and 135 to 225 with ranges far over 1500 yards (7.4 cables). So a good shot is likely between 5 and 7 cables. So when doing your solutions use the ruler tool to make a line perpendicular to the extended course line of your target. Put your sub at the start of your line and this is your ideal torpedo run length.

Last night I was sitting 1.5 cables abeam of the convoy while targeting the center ship which would have been around 4.5 to 5 cables total distance. I fired when AOB was around 70 to 75 degrees and fired 4 torpedoes. All torps hit and no duds. Tried to get out but left my steering engines on so the corvettes made quick work of me at 150 meters. One fatal mistake and lost my crew and sub b/c of it. Excellent targeting solution and attack plan, escape plan not so much.