Command to seal Bulkheads under Alarm conditions 2

[privatePilotBartram]

On June 10 I made post about this topic the link is below.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/494840/discussions/0/1640913421085347014/

Instead of reviving a dead post I felt this would be prudent. Recently I was able to demonstrate the effectiveness of this procedure.

I was engaging a 2-4 transport mission to sink N-A1. I had just previously sustained and repaired the ship after an arial attack. One of the Transport ships was an armed merchant (not a liberty)

I sustained a couple of bow hits and took 2 leaks. I was not able to make repair parts.
Previously before going into action. I had made sure everyone was in their place or station and would not leave the assigned department and closed all the Bulkheads. This action saved the ship.

The forward torpeado room and the radio room flooded however because the hatches were closed. No water had gotten into any other department. I just pressed the button and Loris was the only one to drown. I was then able to limp back to port with a sub half filled with water because the compartments were sealed and no water/ or extra damage was occurred. This action of sealing the bulkheads saved the ship as it would in real life situations as it has done many times.

A command or order must be made available in-the game, To have bulkheads sealed - like a collision alarm.

Here is the video demonstrating the journey back - you join just momemts after I had reversed out of range and Loris died.

https://youtu.be/wHc7-7lsAng

[Davinci]

Originally posted by 123:

A command or order must be made available in-the game, To have bulkheads sealed - like a collision alarm.

I am absolutely NOT a Computer Programmer, have zero knowledge in that department, but what you are asking would take a whole lot of "Re-Writing" for the existing code.

Which would probably cause a ton of unexpected problems pertaining to the Officers and the Crew in using the existing hatches.

It's just "Not" in the code to stop them from opening the hatches going from point A to point B.

The "Only" thing that would prevent them from using the hatches is to stop assigning them any orders that would cause them to move around the submarine.

Example : The file that controls this is the " Crew.xlsx " file located in the Data Sheets.

[ Crew \ Actions ]
Line [ 17 ] - HatchOpenCloseAction

Columns [ D ] and [ E ] - Dictates "Who" is allowed to "Use" this action.

Now - You can alter the ( default ) commands and dictate that only an ( Officer ) can Open and \ or Close a hatch.

But, the "Programming" will always override this Command and allow any crew member to move around the submarine if they have to travel from "Point A to Point B".

Now, you can try experimenting with this yourself, and you will come to the same conclusion that I have came to, this is just not possible with the existing code.

Now, before they really start changing the existing "Code" , shouldn't they concentrate on "Fixing" all of the existing problems with the game?

[wolf310ii]

In RL this boat would sink

[privatePilotBartram]

Originally posted by Davinci:

Originally posted by 123:

A command or order must be made available in-the game, To have bulkheads sealed - like a collision alarm.

I am absolutely NOT a Computer Programmer, have zero knowledge in that department, but what you are asking would take a whole lot of "Re-Writing" for the existing code.

Which would probably cause a ton of unexpected problems pertaining to the Officers and the Crew in using the existing hatches.

It's just "Not" in the code to stop them from opening the hatches going from point A to point B.

The "Only" thing that would prevent them from using the hatches is to stop assigning them any orders that would cause them to move around the submarine.

Example : The file that controls this is the " Crew.xlsx " file located in the Data Sheets.

[ Crew \ Actions ]
Line [ 17 ] - HatchOpenCloseAction

Columns [ D ] and [ E ] - Dictates "Who" is allowed to "Use" this action.

Now - You can alter the ( default ) commands and dictate that only an ( Officer ) can Open and \ or Close a hatch.

But, the "Programming" will always override this Command and allow any crew member to move around the submarine if they have to travel from "Point A to Point B".

Now, you can try experimenting with this yourself, and you will come to the same conclusion that I have came to, this is just not possible with the existing code.

Now, before they really start changing the existing "Code" , shouldn't they concentrate on "Fixing" all of the existing problems with the game?

Your right your not a programmer, so everything else after that was meaningless.
besides the game is in early development they have a team and time on their side to do and make any changes they want.

and no this wouldn't take ages to program into the game. They just change the behavor of the AI so after the crew passes through compartment they close the bulkhead behind them instead of leaving it open. You create a 3 alarm condition - Red light, Blue Light, Yellow Under red or yellow the bulkheads get shut. It is pretty simple to do as the majority of the code has already been written so they just need to adapt it for the new set of rules.

[privatePilotBartram]

Originally posted by wolf310ii:

In RL this boat would sink

Guess you didn't pay attention during high school science huh?

Air bubble under water goes up not down. Fill a 2 ltr soda bottle with 3/4 of water then fill a bucket of water then place the 2ltr bottle into that bucket. see what happens.

Pressure and density of air should keep the bottle floating despite the bottle being filled with 3/4 of water. It is why Ships have staggered hull walls. Most ships could most of the compartments flooded and it still would float.

Even the Titanic was built this way the reason it sank is because went over the top of the walls.

[mutpupit]

Originally posted by 123:

On June 10 I made post about this topic the link is below.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/494840/discussions/0/1640913421085347014/

Instead of reviving a dead post I felt this would be prudent. Recently I was able to demonstrate the effectiveness of this procedure.

I was engaging a 2-4 transport mission to sink N-A1. I had just previously sustained and repaired the ship after an arial attack. One of the Transport ships was an armed merchant (not a liberty)

I sustained a couple of bow hits and took 2 leaks. I was not able to make repair parts.
Previously before going into action. I had made sure everyone was in their place or station and would not leave the assigned department and closed all the Bulkheads. This action saved the ship.

The forward torpeado room and the radio room flooded however because the hatches were closed. No water had gotten into any other department. I just pressed the button and Loris was the only one to drown. I was then able to limp back to port with a sub half filled with water because the compartments were sealed and no water/ or extra damage was occurred. This action of sealing the bulkheads saved the ship as it would in real life situations as it has done many times.

A command or order must be made available in-the game, To have bulkheads sealed - like a collision alarm.

Here is the video demonstrating the journey back - you join just momemts after I had reversed out of range and Loris died.

https://youtu.be/wHc7-7lsAng

The bulkheads are the biggest issue i have with this game. Fix this and dont nerf planes

[wolf310ii]

Originally posted by 123:

Originally posted by wolf310ii:

In RL this boat would sink

Guess you didn't pay attention during high school science huh?

Air bubble under water goes up not down. Fill a 2 ltr soda bottle with 3/4 of water then fill a bucket of water then place the 2ltr bottle into that bucket. see what happens.

Pressure and density of air should keep the bottle floating despite the bottle being filled with 3/4 of water. It is why Ships have staggered hull walls. Most ships could most of the compartments flooded and it still would float.

Even the Titanic was built this way the reason it sank is because went over the top of the walls.

An u-boat is not a soda bottle.
Most ships would sink with most of the compartments flooded, if not they would not need compartments. The Titanic was build to float with 2 out of 15 compartments flooded.
Do you know how bouyancy work or u-boats?
They flood the balast tanks to dive. The boat dont care if the balast tanks get flooded or the boat itself, if the boat reach negativ buoyancy, it sink.
Compressed air also ads more weight and provides less buoyancy.
The main ballast tanks have a capacity of 103.6m³
main ballast tanks and main ballast fuel tanks 152.8m³
But the forward compartment has 149m³.
With the forward compartment flooded, the trim is total off and cant be trimmed, the bow goes straight down, the forward main balast tank will burst and the boat sinks

[privatePilotBartram]

Originally posted by wolf310ii:

Originally posted by 123:

Guess you didn't pay attention during high school science huh?

Air bubble under water goes up not down. Fill a 2 ltr soda bottle with 3/4 of water then fill a bucket of water then place the 2ltr bottle into that bucket. see what happens.

Pressure and density of air should keep the bottle floating despite the bottle being filled with 3/4 of water. It is why Ships have staggered hull walls. Most ships could most of the compartments flooded and it still would float.

Even the Titanic was built this way the reason it sank is because went over the top of the walls.

Sorry I just stopped reading after the 1st sentence. You are just wrong but It was my fault for assuming you would understand the logic and common sense but since you demonstrated the lack of understanding physics.

Everything has an Equal and opposite reaction to each other. Earth's gravitational pull presses and pushes towards the earth core including air. The opposite to this is the water pressure pushing against the Gravity. This how and why the Ocean stays in place and not float into space.

- 1. Large crafts like the U-boats - can not withstand certain depths because of the pressure of the ocean is pushing against the hull of the Submarine like an Egg.

- So How and why are smaller submersibles able to withstand those depths? because they are smaller in size.

The Submarines are basically 1 giant Air bubble and the water is attempting to push you up to where the forces are equal

Water will naturally attempt to find that equilibrium - also known as Sea level, it will not go above or below this.

If you blow from a Scuba breathing mask - Air bubbles go up to the surface - If what I was saying was not true Those are bubbles would stay where they are.

The analogy of a 2ltr bottle is accurate although for the terms of a u-boat a 20oz water bottle would be the rough approximation.

When you fill the bottle either size the bottle instantly try to find balance - it will go down and then back up horizontal and the water inside will find the balance to be with the sea level. The bottle will float.

A bottle or ship with watertight sealed compartments are able to replicate this and can stagger the flooding. This is why even in the game when you sink some of the Merchant ships the Ship goes stern (ass) up in the air because it is attempting to find that balance.

The u-boat in question from my example only 2 compartments were flooded with the majority of the other compartments still dry. The U-boat would not have sunk the laws of physics doesn't change because you want them too.

At worse case RL speaking - they could either put floatations on the outside to balance the ship if they couldn't send divers overboad to fix it on the outside. Or they could have waited for a toe. Or they could have done what I did and get home.

If a Submarine comes to a complete stop while submerged the submarine will naturally float up to the surface. They use speed to keep the ship below water.

So long as the compartments which are flooded are sealed and watertight from breaching the uneffected compartments and as long as there is and air pocket on a ship. It will stay up.

The Titanic sank in 1912 - this concept was known even before WW2. This quite simply why what your saying is complete nonsense.

On a ship, a watertight compartment is bordered by bulkheads and deck heads. ... The float ability of a modern ship is given by the ability to maintain dry as many of those watertight compartments. The Titanic was designed to stay afloat with maximum of four of her sixteen watertight compartments.

Source: https://www.quora.com/How-do-cruise-ships-prevent-flooding-from-spilling-over-into-other-watertight-compartments-like-on-the-Titanic

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/flooded-compartment

https://youtu.be/rX1d79HDdjA


https://youtu.be/F_XMDXdYz7Q

https://i.imgur.com/8ssA1ic.png

[wolf310ii]

Originally posted by 123:

Sorry I just stopped reading after the 1st sentence. You are just wrong but It was my fault for assuming you would understand the logic and common sense but since you demonstrated the lack of understanding physics.

You are the one who dont understand physics

- So How and why are smaller submersibles able to withstand those depths? because they are smaller in size.

Mhm, smaller boats can dive deeper you say? only the size matters?
Typ IIa max deep 120m
Typ VII/41 max deep 300m
Guess wich one is smaller (hint, its not the Typ VII/41).

How deep a u-boat can dive, depends only on the shape and thickness of the hull, not on the size

The Submarines are basically 1 giant Air bubble and the water is attempting to push you up to where the forces are equal

With 149m³ water in the forward compartment, these forces are below sea level equal
The Typ VII has only 3 comparments (compartment=/=room)

When you fill the bottle either size the bottle instantly try to find balance - it will go down and then back up horizontal and the water inside will find the balance to be with the sea level. The bottle will float.

Only if the bottle weights less than the water it displace. If the 2L bottle and it content weights more than 2kg, it will sink, no matter how much air is inside. Thats the Archimedes principle

The u-boat in question from my example only 2 compartments were flooded with the majority of the other compartments still dry. The U-boat would not have sunk the laws of physics doesn't change because you want them too.

Still no, with 149 tonns of water in the bow, the bow cant float.
The bow ballast tank is not pressure resistant, outside and inside pressure has to be the same (+- 6m), so if the bow goes down the tank get crushed, the boat lost 25 tons of buoyancy, sinks deeper, the water pressure rise and the internal trim and torpedo ballast tanks get crushed too, +15 tons.
That makes 189 tons of water in the bow, the forward fuel ballast tanks start to collaps, 2x13.3m³, then the aft fuel ballast tanks 2x11.3m³, the boat has long ago passed the point of no return, below 30m the main balast tank collaps, at 100m the hatch from the control room start to leak, at 140m the regulation tanks collaps and the boat sinks like a stone.

At worse case RL speaking - they could either put floatations on the outside to balance the ship if they couldn't send divers overboad to fix it on the outside. Or they could have waited for a toe. Or they could have done what I did and get home.

No they could not, they dont have floatations to put on the outside to balance the boat and would be sunk long befor a tow boat arrives

If a Submarine comes to a complete stop while submerged the submarine will naturally float up to the surface. They use speed to keep the ship below water.

No, not naturally. They trim the boat with the regulation tanks, so that it weights exact the same amount the water it displace, with a slightly positiv buoyancy.

So long as the compartments which are flooded are sealed and watertight from breaching the uneffected compartments and as long as there is and air pocket on a ship. It will stay up.

Only if its displace more water than its weight, otherwise u-boats would be unable to dive.
To dive, a Typ VII takes 103m³ Water in the ballast tanks. Do you understand that 149m³ is much more than 103m³?

Its not enough to sit in a science class an pay attention, you have also to understand what they teach

[wolf310ii]

Oh, and test your "Basic demonstration" with glass bottles, and see what happen

[Attack Chicken]

Back to the origins subject, I found that sealing the galley bulkhead during extended dives keeps the crew from stealing all of the food. That burned me a few times until I figured out what was going on.

I have pretty extensive knowledge about US fleet boats and from what I have learned, the only compartment that could fully flood and the boat could still make it back to the surface was inside the conning tower (attack center). You can look at sinking accidents, like USS Squalus (renamed USS Sailfish after extensive recovery ops), where a main air induction valve didn’t close in time, which flooded the crew quarters (aft battery), fwd engine room, aft engine room, maneuvering room and aft torpedo room. Thankfully the Navy had the McCann Rescue Chamber, which mated up with the forward torpedo room hatch and was able to save the remainder of the crew (26 died in the aft sections). It took the US Navy about 7 months to raise the boat back to the surface. Once divers were able to get the main induction hatch shut, they hooked up an air supply to fittings on deck to the flooded compartments and forced the sea water out.

This is also the reason that US boats were outfitted with two telephone marker buoys (one above the FTR and one above the ATR). The buoy would be released to go to the surface where a surface ship could hook up a telephone and talk to the crew below.

Lastly, fleet boats also had an escape hatch system installed in the FTR. The crew would purposely flood most of the FTR and one guy would go into the hatch at a time, close the issue hatch, pressurize it, open the outside hatch and float to the surface. This was possible in less than 400 ft of water.

Despite all of these safety precautions, 52 US boats were lost during the war.

[Attack Chicken]

Correction, the Navy made two attempts to raise the Squalus using cables and pontoons. They were concerned that the boat would rise too fast and out of control if they used the air method.

[El Rushbo]

Originally posted by mjs186:

Lastly, fleet boats also had an escape hatch system installed in the FTR. The crew would purposely flood most of the FTR and one guy would go into the hatch at a time, close the issue hatch, pressurize it, open the outside hatch and float to the surface. This was possible in less than 400 ft of water.

Only known instance of survivors escaping this was was the USS Tang (Victim of her last torpedo being a circle runner) Even then of the 13 men who got out, only 8 made it to the surface of which only 5 survived the night to be picked up. Only other survivors were men who were on the bridge and were thrown off including the boats captain ♥♥♥♥ O'Kane. Making a total of 9 survivors. They spent the remainder of the war in a Japanese prison camp.

[Attack Chicken]

Yeah. I remember reading that.