One hit Termis?

[Ballistic Whippet]

Will it still be one hit kills for Terminators? Y'know, the biggest and toughest Infantry armor in the Imperium. Even though there were genestealers that could take 2 wounds...
Honestly, if it's more of that, I'm not interested in this game. I put a lot of time into SH:A but could not stand the one hit deaths against ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ TERMINATORS!

[matthew]

There are a few topics all over on this subject, googling will help. But the short answer is, genestealers are really powerful and their claws are diamond hard, so can easy chew through armour.

So Teminator armour is really useful mainly for the extra protection in a space hulk, and able to carry heavy weapons that a standard suit can't use.

[Ballistic Whippet]

I am VERY familiar with 40k (Obsessed). I get the excuse for it and how hard their claws are. To me, it's still ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that the toughest infantry armor in the Imperium will still be one-shot and at the same time, Deathwatch will go and ♥♥♥♥ nids without the terminator armor. Just saying.
If they did away with the one-hit-kill, it would not be the first 40k game to be a bit loose on the lore for better gameplay.

[Ballistic Whippet]

I know that Space-hulk has always been 1-shots,even since rolling dice. But it's a huge problem that needs to ♥♥♥♥ off.

[Ballistic Whippet]

Also, there has been canon in 30k and 40k novels that a terminator take horrid damage and keep going, whether from Autocannons, Plasma, even in one book it took a hit from a demolisher cannon and kept fighting. So a single swipe from a genestealer, not even a broodlord, kills a Astartes in Tactical Dreadnaught Armor?

[matthew]

I guess the other way to look at it is for balancing reasons rather then lore, I do agree that its annoying, but would it be balanced for GS if thje termines could take more hits? there is another explaination which I read, that on the boardgame, a single GS would represent a lot of genestealers rather then one. So instead of 1 VS 1, its one VS many and that will equal a lot of damage.

[Ballistic Whippet]

I don't recall that, but it makes much more sense if that is the case. They are a swarm type.
I think balancing is fine if a termi could take at least 2 hits, maybe more with perks. In SH:A there were GS that could take an extra hit. There is no reason why almost 2 tons of badass can't take at least 2 or maybe even 3.
Keep in mind that in Tabletop, Termis now have 2 wounds, they used to only have 1.

[matthew]

I got the info from here

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/comments/1lnwp1/warhammer_40k_why_is_terminator_armour_so/

it would make sense that a SM would be facing more then one GS. so who knows?

Still, its still a bit annoying that termies still go down fast regardless.

[holy-death]

The reason it's possible for Genestealers to kill Terminators in melee with one hit is twofold:

1) Genestealers have to reach Terminators before they are able to attack them, which means running the gauntlet, more often than not resulting in Genestealers dying in the attempt.

2) At least in Space Hulk: Ascension (and, from what I have seen, also in Space Hulk: Tactics) a result of melee combat isn't a foregone conclusion - so there is still some chance for Terminator to be able to kill the Genestealer engaging him directly (or die trying).

If you put these two together, and the fact that now it's also possible for players to play as Genestealers against Space Marines (which was possible in the boardgame version of Space Hulk that I have seen), the reason why Terminators can't take more than a single direct hit from Genestealers should be understandable.

To add to this: in the boardgame I have seen an hourglass used to measure how much Space Marine player has to make his moves. After the time was up he wasn't allowed to do anything, which could lead to making quick decisions, potential mistakes and simple forgetfulness.

Lore-wise it was explained that "in Space Hulk it's very claustrophobic and Genestealers act at a speed that challenges even the Space Marines", but in terms of gameplay it was there to give Genestealers an edge over Space Marines because if there was no time limit at all then the Space Marine players could play perfectly.

What I found annoying, personally, was that melee weapons were inherently riskier than their ranged counterparts, which - in turn - led to me ditching melee weapons as a result in favor of anything that can be fired.

[Ballistic Whippet]

I understand the point you are making, but I still say the correct path would be to give them 2 wounds minimum and upgrades for more. Melee should be Viable and at one hit kill (with a chance to kill the GS instead) it falls behind. At a high lvl Melee termi, you can win maybe 4/5 fights, but it should be more for an elite adeptus astartes in holy tactical dreadnaught armor. I use a Crimson Fist squad with one melee unit and Save scum the ♥♥♥♥ out of the game. I really shouldn't have to save scum for it to be viable though and adding additional wounds would almost entirely fix that problem.
And just a thought, I would maybe like to space marines in power armor added with more options for both ranged and melee. If terminators are one shotted anyways, why not add more agile units that could have completely different tactics. I doubt that will ever happen, but I would love to see it.
Bottom line for me, I won't be buying this unless there are more wounds added.

[Morty2989]

Because at the end of the day it's Space Hulk and not a 40K skirmish version like Mordheim was to fantasy?

The genestealers are so screwed in ranged it's not even funny but as you overwatch and they get closer and closer, the tension goes through the roof. Without it the entire game is pretty dull.

[Ballistic Whippet]

Feel free to have that opinion. I don't share that and I have given my reasons why. Like I said, if they are going to have them as one hit kills, I'm not interested in buying the game.

[Morty2989]

So you just don't like Space Hulk, kk.

[Ballistic Whippet]

You clearly did not read the posts. kk.
I have 63 hours in SHA. It is not about enjoying it, It's is about something I find to be a major problem in the game.

[holy-death]

Originally posted by Eternal Crusader:

I understand the point you are making, but I still say the correct path would be to give them 2 wounds minimum and upgrades for more. Melee should be Viable and at one hit kill (with a chance to kill the GS instead) it falls behind.

I do agree that it makes melee much less desirable.

I am thinking cards will help here (not with OHK as such, but with melee chances as a whole). It's either that or giving melee "classes" some sort of inherent abilities. For example, in Space Hulk: Deathwing Assault Terminators have access to damage reduction (shield on self).

[Agrorix]

Space hulk is a wh40k by product thus uses battle rules : only heroes or very resilient creatures (ex : broodlord, tyrant) can take more than 1 hit, termies are no heroes, they're just elite marines, named elite in SP indeed yet elite only whatsoever.

No need to rant forever nor cry a river about it : those are very old set in granite rules.