Is it just me...

[Moridin]

...or does magic just suck now?

I've played this game for years, all kinds of builds and methods so I've had experience with the magic before. I agree that fire (character I just made) needed to be nerfed but I'm fighting guys in the first few areas that are getting hit for 1 per tick and they're not blocking.
I've got the first fire talent that increases fire damage by 50%.

I'm not going to be one of those that rants and raves about how the devs suck or anything of the like, I've loved this game for years and that hasn't changed, I think they've done a fantastic job. That being said, at this point I'm wondering if I somehow did something wrong/not supposed to fight these guys yet (Underground Hideout, I'm level 5). Or maybe magic is supposed to suck in the beginning and get astoundingly better later.

Note: I haven't played in the last few updates waiting for the 1.0 release so this might not be news to some.

[Gravedigger]

Yeah it's pretty underwhelming last I tried. Maybe with later game gear it picks up some.

[Zakharn]

Currently, all talent trees should be quite balanced relatively to each other. Magic in the early game assumes that you are still using your weapon to damage enemies. Once you get more levels and talents, you will be able to use only spells to defeat your enemies.

Btw, which fire spell are you using?

[crazyabe111]

early game magic is mostly trash, you can basically ignore it until level 10-15 (ie when you can go basically halfway down a skill tree) and its best to focus a melee in combat instead, but mid / late game it can be significantly better then the melee alternatives IF you fill out a tree and gather gear that boosts the element you want to focus on as much as possible.

Note, that despite being trash early game- because of the lack of any real ranged alternative- means that early game magic still has its place when dealing with things that can one/two shot you in melee if you get unlucky.

[Funreaver]

For me (fire) magic was a very effective way to deal with challenging encounters in maps that are "locked" in which I could not change the environement to my advantage. Especially in the last 1-2 areas of the preview version just before release. Dont know the final one yet :)

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Zakharn:

Currently, all talent trees should be quite balanced relatively to each other. Magic in the early game assumes that you are still using your weapon to damage enemies. Once you get more levels and talents, you will be able to use only spells to defeat your enemies.

Btw, which fire spell are you using?

The first flame spell (the one that channels at short range), can't remember what it's called at the moment.

My confusion is that using the fire spell nets 1 damage on a target that my sword/axe/knife will be hitting for roughly 10-15 per hit (no talents in melee at all). Averaging out the times (since the fire ticks at a slower rate than it used to) the melee severely out-damages the fire spell. It would make sense if the spell had more range, but it seems to have only a very slightly longer range than a sword.

[Zakharn]

Originally posted by Moridin:

Originally posted by Zakharn:

Currently, all talent trees should be quite balanced relatively to each other. Magic in the early game assumes that you are still using your weapon to damage enemies. Once you get more levels and talents, you will be able to use only spells to defeat your enemies.

Btw, which fire spell are you using?

The first flame spell (the one that channels at short range), can't remember what it's called at the moment.

My confusion is that using the fire spell nets 1 damage on a target that my sword/axe/knife will be hitting for roughly 10-15 per hit (no talents in melee at all). Averaging out the times (since the fire ticks at a slower rate than it used to) the melee severely out-damages the fire spell. It would make sense if the spell had more range, but it seems to have only a very slightly longer range than a sword.

The Flames spell may not do much damage in each tick, but it ticks many times each second, making overall DPS very competitive.

[Szass Tam]

I've been doing an Ice Magic build, and other than having to back up to let mana regen at low levels, I've had no issues with it. As for fire, the higher level spells (anything other than the Flames spell) are viable as well, but the Flames spell does kind of suck. I've never gotten it to do damage comparable to anything else, including melee weapons, plus you have to stand in melee range of the enemy and the spell can easily prevent you from seeing your opponent to know when to block/dodge.

[Zakharn]

Originally posted by Szass Tam:

I've been doing an Ice Magic build, and other than having to back up to let mana regen at low levels, I've had no issues with it. As for fire, the higher level spells (anything other than the Flames spell) are viable as well, but the Flames spell does kind of suck. I've never gotten it to do damage comparable to anything else, including melee weapons, plus you have to stand in melee range of the enemy and the spell can easily prevent you from seeing your opponent to know when to block/dodge.

Remember that Flames are one of the few spells that do AOE damage.

[Gravedigger]

Originally posted by Zakharn:

Originally posted by Moridin:

The first flame spell (the one that channels at short range), can't remember what it's called at the moment.

My confusion is that using the fire spell nets 1 damage on a target that my sword/axe/knife will be hitting for roughly 10-15 per hit (no talents in melee at all). Averaging out the times (since the fire ticks at a slower rate than it used to) the melee severely out-damages the fire spell. It would make sense if the spell had more range, but it seems to have only a very slightly longer range than a sword.

The Flames spell may not do much damage in each tick, but it ticks many times each second, making overall DPS very competitive.

I don't know if intentional, but from the version before current version, and the current version, flame tickrate went WAY down. Like I swear it used to tick many times, maybe 5-10 times a second, and now it ticks maybe 2-3 times a second.

[Zakharn]

Originally posted by Gravedigger:

Originally posted by Zakharn:

The Flames spell may not do much damage in each tick, but it ticks many times each second, making overall DPS very competitive.

I don't know if intentional, but from the version before current version, and the current version, flame tickrate went WAY down. Like I swear it used to tick many times, maybe 5-10 times a second, and now it ticks maybe 2-3 times a second.

Thanks for the info, we will check it out.

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Gravedigger:

Originally posted by Zakharn:

The Flames spell may not do much damage in each tick, but it ticks many times each second, making overall DPS very competitive.

I don't know if intentional, but from the version before current version, and the current version, flame tickrate went WAY down. Like I swear it used to tick many times, maybe 5-10 times a second, and now it ticks maybe 2-3 times a second.

Pretty much exactly why I think the damage is no longer comparable, the tick-rate went from ridiculous to less than a melee weapon.

[lunarwhaler]

I just picked this up at release and started it out, but yeah - I tried to go fire magic for my first character and Flames just feels inferior to slapping things with a spear in pretty much every way.

[Locklave]

Just confirming Flames is basically such low damage and such short range that it being AoE doesn't matter.

It needs to tick way faster, do more damage or have a 100-200% range increase. Adding it to Incinerating Aura would be an idea if you really didn't want to play with range since flame basically a melee attack.

Just to be clear I understand it gets range upgrades and damage upgrades, but the basic spell shouldn't feel useless without them.

[lunarwhaler]

I will say having gotten a bit further, the upgrades you can take at level 5 make the damage feel a lot better. I have a feeling those same upgrade equivalencies on weaponry would probably still out-compete it, though.

[Axle]

Damn, shouldn't have picked fire for my first spell. It does even less damage than my melee