Heavy vs light armor (end game)

[momopovich]

Very old debate, but which in your opinion is the best for an end game build ?

After you get all perks and high end gear, both types can easily reach the armor rating cap.

As for the weight, obviously light armors have an edge but worn armors weigh nothing with the appropriate perk. Still easier to have multiple light armor pieces if you wana swap gear.

light armor gives a +50% stamina regen bonus, heavy armor a 50% "less stagger". That will be the main difference, curious to hear what people who experienced both think. It seems to me that stamina regen looks better, however getting thrown away by draugr shouts is pretty annoying so if the heavy armor perk protects from that there are reasons to go heavy.

As for the last perk, light armor is a 10% chance to avoid all damage from a hit. It's not clear if the heavy armor equivalent has a 10% chance to completely reflect the damage (in that case it's better) or you still take the damage and hen reflect it ?

[SpeedFreak1972]

It also depends on your playstyle I mean a thief or stealth archer looks weird in full ebony or daedric

[momopovich]

Well I'm not taking style points in consideration. Stealth is a great tool early game but with end game perks and gear it's just a waste of time crouching

[wawawiwa]

unless you playing one of those difficulty overhaul like requiem

both good on their own departement imo

want to be a berserker and plow throught your enemy ?
pick heavy armor

want to be a sneaky archer who kill everyone in 1 shot ?
pick light armor

Originally posted by momopovich:

As for the last perk, light armor is a 10% chance to avoid all damage from a hit. It's not clear if the heavy armor equivalent has a 10% chance to completely reflect the damage (in that case it's better) or you still take the damage and hen reflect it ?

you still take damage for reflect blow, that perk is worthless in higher difficulty

[momopovich]

I play on legendary with no mods.

aside from style point i still don't get the "sneak vs melee charge" thing ? you can do both with both armors. Stamina regen is actually better for a melee charge playstile since you sprint more and pump power attacks. It's pointless to stealth for "1 shots" since you can also charge and 1 shot with good gear and perks (aka "end game").

[sdack]

The entire debate is somewhat pointless when one can reach the armor cap with both light and heavy armor. The perk trees give somewhat similar benefits like the armor becoming weightless when wearing a full set, while the remaining perks do not make all that much of a difference when one can have powerful potions and weapons.

I would say that when your build is entirely focused on melee damage with a two-handed weapon then there is a small benefit to heavy armor. But then you also run into the debate of whether a single two-handed weapon is better than two single-handed weapons, and you are back at square one with min-maxing your build.

Hence, style and aesthetics ultimately matter more when one can min-max a build in several ways in my opinion.

[momopovich]

dual 1h weapons definitely do FAR more damage than 2h especially with chaos+frost enchants on stalhrim weapons, there's no debate about that.

So it's all about 50% less stagger vs +50% stamina regen, also the 10% chance to dodge is better than the reflect perk from heavy armor.

In practice stagger doesn't seem to be that annoying especially considering you just kill enemies before they can incapacitate you, however the draugr shouts can throw your character away which is really annoying and a waste of time when you're running through a dungeon. I haven't tested yet if the heavy armor perk prevents that.

[Liquid Inc]

light IMHO, but vanilla light looks awful.. leather.. glass.. vampire.. all of it has terrible aesthetics..
Now, we do get some light armours from the CC content which does look better, so that's a plus...

As to the gameplay side, legendary was literally just crouch, wear cicero's gloves, and backstab everything for 30x sneak damage.
Didn't matter what armour you had on as long as you cast muffle.. If you became a vampire, and had some perks in sneak, you were virtually undetectable even in heavy armour *Shrugs*

Hence why i now use mods to liven it all up....

[Skumboni]

Originally posted by momopovich:

Well I'm not taking style points in consideration. Stealth is a great tool early game but with end game perks and gear it's just a waste of time crouching

If you play a stealth type then the bonuses for attacking when unseen greatly help out at all stages of the game. See the right side of the sneak tree for just how much help. Also my sneak is o good i can usually get close enough to pick their pockets, helping to raise that skill, before engaging in combat.

[th]

Originally posted by sdack:

The entire debate is somewhat pointless when one can reach the armor cap with both light and heavy armor. The perk trees give somewhat similar benefits like the armor becoming weightless when wearing a full set, while the remaining perks do not make all that much of a difference when one can have powerful potions and weapons.

I would say that when your build is entirely focused on melee damage with a two-handed weapon then there is a small benefit to heavy armor. But then you also run into the debate of whether a single two-handed weapon is better than two single-handed weapons, and you are back at square one with min-maxing your build.

Hence, style and aesthetics ultimately matter more when one can min-max a build in several ways in my opinion.

+1. I too think that the difference from effectivness point of view is futile. So aesthetics is the only important thing which remains.

I myself usually prefer light armor for RP reasons. I never liked heavely armored tin cans.

[momopovich]

Originally posted by Skumboni:

Originally posted by momopovich:

Well I'm not taking style points in consideration. Stealth is a great tool early game but with end game perks and gear it's just a waste of time crouching

If you play a stealth type then the bonuses for attacking when unseen greatly help out at all stages of the game. See the right side of the sneak tree for just how much help. Also my sneak is o good i can usually get close enough to pick their pockets, helping to raise that skill, before engaging in combat.

This is for early game when you still need to level pickpocketing and the damage increase for stealth attacks is still relevant. In the end game you can just sprint/dash to enemies and 1 hit them with increased damage enchants.

[Skumboni]

Originally posted by momopovich:

Originally posted by Skumboni:

If you play a stealth type then the bonuses for attacking when unseen greatly help out at all stages of the game. See the right side of the sneak tree for just how much help. Also my sneak is o good i can usually get close enough to pick their pockets, helping to raise that skill, before engaging in combat.

This is for early game when you still need to level pickpocketing and the damage increase for stealth attacks is still relevant. In the end game you can just sprint/dash to enemies and 1 hit them with increased damage enchants.

I do not run to any of them I kill them at a distance my 1 and 2 handed skill are below 20 each. Extra damage reduces arrow usage - a consideration for all archers. And if the bonus lets me 1 shot them then I am just utilizing game mechanics. For those playing on a controller who like to feel the vibration when something dies on your sword this has no application. I also legendary my pick pocketing so I always need to level it.

[theyangman0]

Honestly, by end-game it really shouldn't matter which type you use. The stagger perk doesn't prevent the whole "Draugr Deathlord used Unrelenting Force to knock you off your feet", so if that's what you're hoping for it won't work. I guess the only practical benefit I can think of is that if you're gonna loot armor for profit, wearing Nordic Carved Armor guarantees you can loot bandit chiefs with impunity since Skyrim has an interesting "feature" where if you have the perk to ignore an armor's weight, it applies to all duplicate armor pieces you're not wearing.

And they kinda butchered the heavy armor reflect, so you might be better off relying on ignoring damage. Reflecting doesn't prevent the damage either unlike light armor. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Heavy_Armor

- While the description of Reflect Blows seems potent, it does not entirely work as described. Indeed, opponents who have the perk (such as the Ebony Warrior) can one-hit-kill you in certain circumstances if the perk triggers, but the damage is calculated a little differently for players.

The perk will not reduce damage taken. When it triggers, a melee attacker will take some of the damage dealt to you, but you will also take that damage. If your character that has reached the armor cap of 567 (which grants an 80% damage reduction) it means in the damage reflected back at attacker is also reduced by that same 80%. The damage reflected back is also affected by the Block skill, which caps at an 85% damage reduction. The usefulness of the perk becomes questionable as the most damage you can mitigate with heavy armor and block is 97%, meaning you will reflect only 3% of the damage an enemy does to you. On Master difficulty the perk becomes almost worthless because while you take double damage, the damage you reflect is also subject to the half damage you deal.

[Heimdall313]

The Stamina Regen from Light armor is really convenient even if its just sprinting around. If you're using melee weapons, it helps pump out power attacks, but Vegetable Soup providing 1 stamina per sec achieves a superior effect for Bash / Power Attack spam.

Armor doesn't have health like older titles, so Light Armor lost one of its biggest criticisms. Thanks to Smithing bonuses, just pick an aesthetic lol.

[momopovich]

Originally posted by theyangman0:

Honestly, by end-game it really shouldn't matter which type you use. The stagger perk doesn't prevent the whole "Draugr Deathlord used Unrelenting Force to knock you off your feet", so if that's what you're hoping for it won't work. I guess the only practical benefit I can think of is that if you're gonna loot armor for profit, wearing Nordic Carved Armor guarantees you can loot bandit chiefs with impunity since Skyrim has an interesting "feature" where if you have the perk to ignore an armor's weight, it applies to all duplicate armor pieces you're not wearing.

And they kinda butchered the heavy armor reflect, so you might be better off relying on ignoring damage. Reflecting doesn't prevent the damage either unlike light armor. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Heavy_Armor

- While the description of Reflect Blows seems potent, it does not entirely work as described. Indeed, opponents who have the perk (such as the Ebony Warrior) can one-hit-kill you in certain circumstances if the perk triggers, but the damage is calculated a little differently for players.

The perk will not reduce damage taken. When it triggers, a melee attacker will take some of the damage dealt to you, but you will also take that damage. If your character that has reached the armor cap of 567 (which grants an 80% damage reduction) it means in the damage reflected back at attacker is also reduced by that same 80%. The damage reflected back is also affected by the Block skill, which caps at an 85% damage reduction. The usefulness of the perk becomes questionable as the most damage you can mitigate with heavy armor and block is 97%, meaning you will reflect only 3% of the damage an enemy does to you. On Master difficulty the perk becomes almost worthless because while you take double damage, the damage you reflect is also subject to the half damage you deal.

Thanks for the info, i've read on uesp that the stagger perk helps against draugr but if it does not then it's quite worthless indeed.

Looks like light armor has all the advantages in the end. Now the hard part is finding one that looks decent on my orc ://

[Bansheebutt]

The individual advantages of armor class are almost meaningless with all perks taken in to account.

The only real thing is It's easier to min-max situationally optimal enchantments with Light Armor, as the zero-weight perks only apply to equipped items, which might be useful on higher difficulties.