About Oblivion Remastered

[charlea]

I keep seeing videos and rumors from other forums talking about that Bethesda is about to release a remastered edition of Oblivion, but no idea where does that news even came from.

[Shaken_Widow]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Bansheebutt:

Im speaking as someone who's used the tools for all the games and could recreate pretty much any vanilla content.

Weird to talk about "hype" when you keep framing "Radiant Ai" like it's some mystical wizardy.

my guy i never ever said it was some wizardry, i said that it would have to be reconfigured for any new engine, which it does, and when people have tried to do so in the past it completely breaks games which is why we don't have it in the games after oblivion.

im also surprised considering you said this:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Bansheebutt:

They can't "just port it" to creation engine as the basis for the remaster because scripts work completely differently between the two games to the point it would push the project up to Remake status.

and i was literally only using radiant ai as an example of one thing that could potentially break and be a pita for any new developers working on a remaster trying to port it into a new engine that uses different logic and ai functionality.

yes, radiant ai can be put onto any npc in unreal and other engines pretty easily.

porting the actual old ai code into the new engine is not the same, as the old code is completely different than what would be used to configure it into the new engine, it is based on a simple structure but the code bases have changed making configuring from old files a pita as i said.

they wouldn't do that, they would need the original developers to actually pick apart the bugs that came with the new code base and none of them work for the company anymore.

and again, if they have to redo the entire radiant ai to work with the new engines then it wouldn't be a remaster.

i think a lot of people fail to understand what "remaster" actually means.

it's not hard to implement a newer graphics api to an old engine and simply enable shaders that weren't available before and increase fidelity of graphics, THAT is what a remaster is.

porting to another engine entirely? that's called a remake, no matter what you try and claim they're doing with it. - and i mean specifically in terms to this game, porting to another engine would in fact take way too much time to call it simply a "remaster" because of how out of date and deprecated the codebase is for oblivion.

- and if there is anything at all coming to us, it will be a remaster, not a remake, meaning same exact codebase and engine, just upgraded graphics api with increased fidelity like higher res textures and models, and increased support for modern systems like uw and such, nothing more than that.

[Bansheebutt]

I'm talking specifically about a Creation "Port" and the issues with that not being so simple.

The ai systems of the latter bethesda engines are not dramatically different, they all follow the same templates since Oblivion.

Oblivion's memorable ai wasn't anything special, it was Bethesda just using their tools for the first time with a long faded ambition. All of its quirks were not "Bugs" in a technical sense, but oversights and design flubs.
Referencing the Foresters again, the solution to the "issue" is just to add a Condition that would only return valid on a Deer. The designer hadn't considered the foresters would ever run in to each other and battle to the death for their venison.


When I'm talking about scripting, I'm talking about how the Gamebryo games use an entirely different language (OBScript I think is the official name).

The creation games use Papyrus and it's not more or less capable (though Ifind it markedly more confusing to learn.). It's just different in how it handles a lot of basic things.

The way dialogue is implemented is also notably different in a few ways. Even without acompletely different scripting language, this would be a major task to translate in to Creation.

Other than that though the latter games are still sharing a lot of Technical stuff from even before Oblivion.

[Shaken_Widow]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Bansheebutt:

I talking specifically about a Creation "Port" and the issues with that not being so simple.

The ai systems of the latter bethesda engines are not dramatically different, they all follow the same templates since Oblivion.

Oblivion's memorable ai wasn't anything special, it was Bethesda just using their tools for the first time with a long faded ambition. All of its quirks were not "Bugs" in a technical sense, but oversights and design flubs.
Referencing the Foresters again, the solution to the "issue" is just to add a Condition that would only return valid on a Deer. The designer hadn't considered the foresters would ever run in to each other and battle to the death for their venison.


When I'm talking about scripting, I'm talking about how the Gamebryo games use an entirely different language (OBScript I think is the official name).

The creation games use Papyrus and it's not more or less capable (though Ifind it markedly more confusing to learn.). It's just different in how it handles a lot of basic things.

The way dialogue is implemented is also notably different in a few ways. Even without acompletely different scripting language, this would be a major task to translate in to Creation.

Other than that though the latter games are still sharing a lot of Technical stuff from even before Oblivion.

yeah you understand a lot more than how i was trying to explain it, but basically the radiant ai system we know and love, (quirks and all,) isn't the same in newer engines and has been shown to break when implemented by people who don't know what they're doing.

which was my only real point in that matter, not that radiant ai is some wizardry, but rather that we wouldn't see a proper port into a newer game engine because of simple issues like the dialogue and such being bugged and requiring troubleshooting if not entire rewrites of pieces of the code.

just saying, it's not going to be some port into unreal engine 5 like others before you have suggested simply because of the technical changes required to do so.

a remaster will simply be the new graphics apis being added with higher res textures and models, along with advanced system support for things like ultrawide and such.

thinking it's going to be anything more than that is wild, it doesn't need any of the new game engines features whatsoever, it simply needs to be remastered with modern graphics. - and i say need as in just for a remaster, imho the game doesn't need a remaster, i love every single bit about it and would even say it's my favorite game in the es series.

[Bansheebutt]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shaken_Widow:

implemented by people who don't know what they're doing.

Well, one way to look at it is that's what made Oblivion so memeable in its golden years to begin with.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shaken_Widow:

a remaster will simply be the new graphics apis being added with higher res textures and models, along with advanced system support for things like ultrawide and such.

This is what makes me scratch my head- if this is the route they're going than I mainly worry whether it's going to solve any of the original game's performance difficulties with stuff like complex environments, lots of npcs within sight, and other problems we've long solved with Multi-Core Processing.

Even Fallout 3 was an advancement on that front.

[Shaken_Widow]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Bansheebutt:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shaken_Widow:

implemented by people who don't know what they're doing.

Well, one way to look at it is that's what made Oblivion so memeable in its golden years to begin with.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shaken_Widow:

a remaster will simply be the new graphics apis being added with higher res textures and models, along with advanced system support for things like ultrawide and such.

This is what makes me scratch my head- if this is the route they're going than I mainly worry whether it's going to solve any of the original game's performance difficulties with stuff like complex environments, lots of npcs within sight, and other problems we've long solved with Multi-Core Processing.

Even Fallout 3 was an advancement on that front.

i meant to say there should be some bugfixing but the former point holds that if they're using inexperienced devs that haven't a clue how oblivion handles then that could be an entire undertaking in its own.

there are some glaring bugs with the games, every single one from the original studios had them lol, but as far as a remaster goes i think a lot of us would just love having oblivion be the same game, with upgraded graphics.

the moment you get a secondary dev team to work on things like patches and such you invite the chance of another gta definitive edition.

[SpeedFreak1972]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von wicked lester:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von alexander_dougherty:

Yeah, it would destroy any PR they have, and undo most of what they would try to build in the future.... I believe the phrase is PR nightmare.

there is zero chance that the mod teams can stand up to Bethesda in a legal battle, let alone Microsoft. Let's hope the bad press would be enough for them not to squash them.

They probably won’t, but as said it would be a publicity nightmare and would seriously hurt th bottomline in future sales.

[alexander_dougherty]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von wicked lester:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von alexander_dougherty:

Yeah, it would destroy any PR they have, and undo most of what they would try to build in the future.... I believe the phrase is PR nightmare.

there is zero chance that the mod teams can stand up to Bethesda in a legal battle, let alone Microsoft. Let's hope the bad press would be enough for them not to squash them.

Want to bet, there is enough of a case for the legal battle to begin, and for it to generate enough bad PR that Microsoft would think twice before starting it, Bethesda would know it's a death knell for them and warn Microsoft repeatedly.

[alexander_dougherty]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shaken_Widow:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Bansheebutt:

As someone with a lot of experience modding beth's games, Remaster was always a weird idea to me, because I don't know how much they could really push Oblivion's version of the gamebryo. Even Fallout 3's version was a significant advancement.

They can't "just port it" to creation engine as the basis for the remaster because scripts work completely differently between the two games to the point it would push the project up to Remake status.

i think a lot of people are suggesting porting it to new engines because they don't actually realize oblivions entire basis for everything was different.

why would they port it to the new engine when that would mean getting rid of radiant ai and such?

Getting rid of Oblivion's AI would be a major improvement, I for one was fed up of NPCs walking down stairs that weren't there....

The only area Oblivion's AI had any advantage was the game could track different groups as different groups, and not have every NPC turn on the player as if they were one team. If they could keep that, while getting the improvements that Skyrim has it would be an extremely good AI system.

[psychotron666]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von alexander_dougherty:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shaken_Widow:

i think a lot of people are suggesting porting it to new engines because they don't actually realize oblivions entire basis for everything was different.

why would they port it to the new engine when that would mean getting rid of radiant ai and such?

Getting rid of Oblivion's AI would be a major improvement, I for one was fed up of NPCs walking down stairs that weren't there....

The only area Oblivion's AI had any advantage was the game could track different groups as different groups, and not have every NPC turn on the player as if they were one team. If they could keep that, while getting the improvements that Skyrim has it would be an extremely good AI system.

The later Bethesda games still have that faction system where enemies will fight one another if they're from different factions.

[alexander_dougherty]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von psychotron666:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von alexander_dougherty:

Getting rid of Oblivion's AI would be a major improvement, I for one was fed up of NPCs walking down stairs that weren't there....

The only area Oblivion's AI had any advantage was the game could track different groups as different groups, and not have every NPC turn on the player as if they were one team. If they could keep that, while getting the improvements that Skyrim has it would be an extremely good AI system.

The later Bethesda games still have that faction system where enemies will fight one another if they're from different factions.

Yes, but in Skyrim at least they forget their enemies if the player is in range and attack you as a team, they only fight each other if you aren't an option.
Oblivion at least from what I remember they still attacked each other even when you were in range, they targetted you first, but if an enemy was closer they attacked that instead.

[Neo-Rey]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rez Elwin:

Hopeful wishes maybe? There is zero actual evidence of this. I would not mind a remaster. Oblivion is my favorite Elder Scrolls game, actually my favorite Bethesda game. Though I won't hold my breath. I am just waiting for Skyblivon to come out, which is supposed to be this year.

There is enough evidence of this,if you searched the web. I would'nt be surprised if Bethesda pulled a stunt like this.

[LAGRIE]

Skyblivion, just like Skywind, requires both original games to work. To play Skyblivion, you need The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (with its DLCs) and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition. Unfortunately, it’s not available on consoles because the mod is too large and relies on SKSE (Skyrim Script Extender), which consoles can’t support.

Skyblivion is shaping up to be an incredible mod a full recreation of Oblivion using Skyrim’s Creation Kit (CK). However, it won’t include the Knights of the Nine or Shivering Isles expansions at launch. Adding those would require a massive amount of extra work, especially since Shivering Isles is such a huge addition. That said, there’s hope they might be added in the future.

If Bethesda ever decides to remaster or remake Oblivion, it could still be a fantastic alternative. Whether it’s a polished remaster or a full on remake, it would definitely be a win for Bethesda. Such a project would come to consoles, include all the DLCs, and likely run on their newer Creation Kit or maybe even Unreal Engine 5, which would be epic. Both options would be awesome for PC players, but a remaster or remake would be the only way console players could experience a modernized version of Oblivion.

[alexander_dougherty]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von LAGRIE:

Skyblivion, just like Skywind, requires both original games to work. To play Skyblivion, you need The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (with its DLCs) and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition.

Because Bethesda requires them to be prerequisites to the mod.

[cbiocca]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von charlea:

I keep seeing videos and rumors from other forums talking about that Bethesda is about to release a remastered edition of Oblivion, but no idea where does that news even came from.

Wrong forum to be asking this question. This is the Skyrim SE forum, not the Oblivion forum.

[charlea]

Really just saw that rumor, thus asking....