How come Modders are doing much better job than the developers?

[neuronfly]

I have been seeing this trend a lot lately and can't seem to ignore it. Mods when added to a game makes a dull experience into a very enjoyable one. Without mods I can't even think of playing this game.

This has been happening across the entire game industry lately. Skyrim with 1000+ mods, Fallout 4 with 500+ mods, Cyberpunk with 100+ punks, World of Warcraft with 100+ mods, Final Fantasy XIV with 300+ mods, Warhammer 3 Total War with 50+ mods, these are just a few examples. Like recently I completed Stalker 2 with 10+ mods, without those 10 mods I couldn't even think of touching the game let alone completing it.

So the main question is should Modders take over the entire game industry and overthrow the corrupt corporate execs that are in charge of the developers? These corrupt corporate overlord execs have absolutely 0 clue about any game. If you give them a game to play it, they will be clueless on how to play. I envision the future game industry like this: Modders should be in charge of the publishing industry. For example, the CEOs and Board of Directors of Bethesda, Sega, EA, Activision, Ubisoft, etc, should be highly reputed Modders not some dumb idiots in a suit. What do you guys think?

[Hypertext Eye]

modders don't have shareholders and deadlines.

[neuronfly]

Originally posted by Hypertext Eye:

modders don't have shareholders and deadlines.

Shareholders will come naturally in time and deadlines are bad for the gaming industry. Remember we used to follow a motto in this industry "It will be released when its done". GenZ have no clue about what I just said.

[Solomon Hawk]

If it were not for the generosity of the developers .. there would be no mod "makers".
So, don't overestimate what they can do.

[neuronfly]

Originally posted by Solomon Hawk:

If it were not for the generosity of the developers .. there would be no mod "makers".
So, don't overestimate what they can do.

Generosity like the Creation Club with paid mods? LMFAO

[Solomon Hawk]

Originally posted by neuronfly:

Originally posted by Solomon Hawk:

If it were not for the generosity of the developers .. there would be no mod "makers".
So, don't overestimate what they can do.

Generosity like the Creation Club with paid mods? LMFAO

It's their choice bubbah.
Don't think for a minute that the developer doesn't own ALL content.
If you don't believe that, you should look up the TOS and End User License Agreement.
Maybe you'll come to your senses with some enlightenment.
They capitalized on it.
Can you?

[neuronfly]

Originally posted by Solomon Hawk:

Originally posted by neuronfly:

Generosity like the Creation Club with paid mods? LMFAO

It's their choice bubbah.
Don't think for a minute that the developer doesn't own ALL content.
If you don't believe that, you should look up the TOS and End User License Agreement.
Maybe you'll come to your senses with some enlightenment.
They capitalized on it.
Can you?

This is the main reason why I purchased the game on GOG. I don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about TOS and end user license agreement. Even if bethesda decides to take down this game, it will only affect steam. GOG users won't be affected because there is no DRM on that platform. In simple terms, if you purchased any game on GOG, it will be on your hard disk for all eternity no matter what the publisher decides to do with their games. I download all my 1000+ mods from Nexus and I purchased my games from GOG.

[Mooselager]

Gaming companies that were started by passionate nerds for gaming were slowly overtaken overtime by disgusting corrupt business slugs creeping into the industry over the years realizing that there is money to be made in the video game industry.
Now you have the dishonest snake salesman bossing the workers around to create the game that they think will get the most return on investment while spending as little as possible.

[Hypertext Eye]

Originally posted by neuronfly:

Originally posted by Hypertext Eye:

modders don't have shareholders and deadlines.

Shareholders will come naturally in time

and then we'll be in the same situation we're in now. no difference.

deadlines are bad for the gaming industry.

without deadlines, the shareholders won't come.

Originally posted by Mooselager:

Gaming companies that were started by passionate nerds for gaming were slowly overtaken overtime by disgusting corrupt business slugs creeping into the industry over the years realizing that there is money to be made in the video game industry.
Now you have the dishonest snake salesman bossing the workers around to create the game that they think will get the most return on investment while spending as little as possible.

basically, yeah. what the TC is asking for is a reboot of the industry, and it will end up just like it is now. It doesn't matter who is in charge, the result will be the same.

Originally posted by neuronfly:

Originally posted by Solomon Hawk:

If it were not for the generosity of the developers .. there would be no mod "makers".
So, don't overestimate what they can do.

Generosity like the Creation Club with paid mods? LMFAO

Like it or not, the Creation Kit would not exist without Bethesda, and many of the mods you enjoy were made with that application.

[Rez Elwin]

Modders are probably more experienced than the developers these days. Fans will stick with a series longer than the people working on it do. The same people who modded Morrowind could making modes for Skyrim, but not all the same people are at Bethesda.

There is also the fact that for many modders, this is a side thing they do in their free time for fun, and it shows. Developers do this because it's their job and they don't have a choice.
Without any pressure and a time limits, modders can spend as much time as they need to polish their creations to gold, developers simply cannot.

However, making mods and making a game are two very different things. A modder might make an existing game better, but that doesn't mean they can make a game on their own, it's a very different skill-set.

[Ilja]

Originally posted by Solomon Hawk:

Originally posted by neuronfly:

Generosity like the Creation Club with paid mods? LMFAO

It's their choice bubbah.
Don't think for a minute that the developer doesn't own ALL content.
If you don't believe that, you should look up the TOS and End User License Agreement.
Maybe you'll come to your senses with some enlightenment.
They capitalized on it.
Can you?

Bethesda ToS is partially invalid. Their parent company Zenimax Media enforced mod author rights for their creative content

In EU and UK area law protects distribution of creative content. Authors can not sell them away. Any such agreement would be invalid.

Of course Bethesda still is publisher for the CC content. They have very wide rights to them. Those rights do not extend to free modding scene, thanks to Zenimax intervention and law.

US authors has slightly harder time, due to different legal system.

[Hypertext Eye]

Originally posted by Rez Elwin:

Modders are probably more experienced than the developers these days. Fans will stick with a series longer than the people working on it do. The same people who modded Morrowind could making modes for Skyrim, but not all the same people are at Bethesda.

Apparently this has changed since Starfield. Long time mod makers are just refusing to work with it.

[Da_Higg]

Originally posted by Hypertext Eye:

Originally posted by Rez Elwin:

Modders are probably more experienced than the developers these days. Fans will stick with a series longer than the people working on it do. The same people who modded Morrowind could making modes for Skyrim, but not all the same people are at Bethesda.

Apparently this has changed since Starfield. Long time mod makers are just refusing to work with it.

Wells that's a self sustaining issue:
Game isn't popular so modders dont see much value in making mods,
Lack of mods mean people cannot customise the game to how they like it,
Game becomes less popular as a result
Repeat

[SpeedFreak1972]

Also modders don't need to take a bunch of hardware configs, scenario's, etc into consideration .... modders expand on what's already there

[Hypertext Eye]

Originally posted by Da_Higg:

Game isn't popular so modders dont see much value in making mods,

From what I understand it's not a matter of the game's popularity, it's just they can't mod the game to do what they want it to do. this is one case where modders can't fix Bethesda's mess.

[Wizard]

I think it's one thing to make a product from scratch, and another thing to see its faults after the fact.

By the time the game hits the shelves, at least back then, it's for the most part complete. The profit earning aspect has already been completed, and any future efforts (patches, DLC}, will have diminishing returns.

Then there's the fact that this product from scratch, engine aside, took about 100 people at Bethesda 5 years to make. Now, more than twice as many years later, hundreds, if not thousands of people have worked to build off of that base.

I would not be surprised to learn that overall mod development time over a decade is at least 10x the original dev time. Plus without management and deadlines, modders can indulge passion projects that would not be feasible in a time crunch for a broad release.

I've always felt that this relationship is symbiotic, and claiming that modders are somehow more capable than the og devs to be false. Bethesda can make Skyrim without the modders, but the modders would not be modding Skyrim, if not for Bethesda. Yet, a vibrant modding scene can carry a game much farther, gaining player longevity.

TLDR: dev/modders... we need 'em both.