Bend Will is Bugged, Can't Remove From Shout List!

[judgefidler]

I had saved just before the arena where you learn the final word for Bend Will, and learned the word after killing the two Seekers. As soon as I unlocked the word, I got hit by a blast of ice and forced out of the book. This caused a bug where that blue dragon appeared in the Skaal Village but underneath the terrain, so I couldn't do anything.

I then reset my save to try again, but upon loading my save the third word for Bend Will is already unlocked, even though I saved before unlocking it. I tried multiple autosaves from within Apocrypha, but all of them have me with the full Bend Will shout!

Player.removeshout and player.removespell don't work at all, and Sahrotaar doesn't appear if I use setstage dlc2mq06 200. How in the world do I fix this?

[Morgan Fun Gamer]

Are you playing with any mods or playing with no mods because asking this could help with this shout gltich problem.

[judgefidler]

Originally posted by Morgan Fun Gamer:

Are you playing with any mods or playing with no mods because asking this could help with this shout gltich problem.

Playing with mods. The mods that were on at the time this bug occurred were Immersive AI, Immersive Patrols, and the Deadpool Follower.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by judgefidler:

Originally posted by Morgan Fun Gamer:

Are you playing with any mods or playing with no mods because asking this could help with this shout gltich problem.

Playing with mods. The mods that were on at the time this bug occurred were Immersive AI, Immersive Patrols, and the Deadpool Follower.

oh boy.....
Ok, you can't simply turn mods on and off, the data from mods is baked into the saves, so the effects stay active even when the mods is not.... in fact turning mods on and off can cause bugs...
Unless it's a texture or lighting mod you probably need to start a new game if you want to deactivate them.

Oh, and it's either a mod you have turned off or the turning mods on and off that's caused the bug, because the shout itself is not bugged.

[judgefidler]

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

Originally posted by judgefidler:

Playing with mods. The mods that were on at the time this bug occurred were Immersive AI, Immersive Patrols, and the Deadpool Follower.

oh boy.....
Ok, you can't simply turn mods on and off, the data from mods is baked into the saves, so the effects stay active even when the mods is not.... in fact turning mods on and off can cause bugs...
Unless it's a texture or lighting mod you probably need to start a new game if you want to deactivate them.

Oh, and it's either a mod you have turned off or the turning mods on and off that's caused the bug, because the shout itself is not bugged.

Didn't know that, damn...thanks.

[TacticalNuke455]

Originally posted by Morgan Fun Gamer:

Are you playing with any mods or playing with no mods because asking this could help with this shout gltich problem.

Mods have no effect on this. You can't "remove" shouts from your list after a quest is done, such as how "call dragon" (used in the main questline once to travel to a one-time area once) stays with you after. It's not a quest item, so it can't be taken out of your shout list. Also, Bend Will is able to be used in combat to calm an enemy temporarily, which may be part of the reason it stays.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by TacticalNuke455:

Originally posted by Morgan Fun Gamer:

Are you playing with any mods or playing with no mods because asking this could help with this shout gltich problem.

Mods have no effect on this.

They do if you deactivate them then play with them off, because this causes bugs, which can be anything....
Same for if they are in a badly sorted load order...

People need to stop saying mods don't affect this or that, because if you do them wrong they can affect anything in the game, whether in the wrong place in your load order, some other mistake most of us have made at some point...

[SpeedFreak1972]

Also keep in mind how the game works a LOT of data is stored in the savegames ... if you remove those mods you're stuck with a messed up save, because the game EXPECT to find the mods and items that are listed in that save.

[judgefidler]

By some miracle, a second bug made the word wall trigger on my last attempt despite me having the full shout, which allowed me to finish the quest.

I'm glad for that, but I also want to know why the game would alter a save like that.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by judgefidler:

By some miracle, a second bug made the word wall trigger on my last attempt despite me having the full shout, which allowed me to finish the quest.

I'm glad for that, but I also want to know why the game would alter a save like that.

The cache doesn't reset unless the game is closed down, which can affect a number of things, shouldn't affect word walls but it doesn't surprise me.

[judgefidler]

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

Originally posted by judgefidler:

By some miracle, a second bug made the word wall trigger on my last attempt despite me having the full shout, which allowed me to finish the quest.

I'm glad for that, but I also want to know why the game would alter a save like that.

The cache doesn't reset unless the game is closed down, which can affect a number of things, shouldn't affect word walls but it doesn't surprise me.

Erm, what do you mean by the cache doesn't reset? Are you talking about how it forced me to have the full Bend Will shot even after I closed and reopened the game?

[Death Approaches]

removing the shout removes you unlocking it with a soul, not the additional level, the shouts are spell "casts", so try 'player.removespell ##0179e1' (## will be your Dragonborn load order) should remove the dragon-riding portion again... if you wanted to add it because you didn't get it, change that to 'player.addspell'...

re: restarting, no, many things involving quests and state variables are what we call "save-baked" - once it's set, it's part of the game variables dataset, closing and restarting does absolutely nothing, it reloads it right back the way it was... you have to manipulate it directly to have any effect on it.

"This caused a bug where that blue dragon appeared in the Skaal Village but underneath the terrain, so I couldn't do anything."

dying in a black book and a wonky spawn, those are probably not related at all... the easiest way to fix that is 'tai' with nothing selected, to stop all AI processing, 'tcl' so you can fly down below the terrain, tag the dragon, 'getpos z' and see the value, then add like 2000 to it, say it was z 153.93, do 'setpos z 2153' and go back above ground and see how high in the air the dragon is, adjust up or down accordingly til it's high enough it's above the buildings but not so high it won't target ground enemies... once you like the positioning, make sure you're near the ground so you won't die when gravity turns on, click off the dragon twice so nothing is selected, 'tcl' again so meshes become solid, and 'tai' again to start the show when you close console.

[judgefidler]

Originally posted by Death Approaches:

removing the shout removes you unlocking it with a soul, not the additional level, the shouts are spell "casts", so try 'player.removespell ##0179e1' (## will be your Dragonborn load order) should remove the dragon-riding portion again... if you wanted to add it because you didn't get it, change that to 'player.addspell'...

re: restarting, no, many things involving quests and state variables are what we call "save-baked" - once it's set, it's part of the game variables dataset, closing and restarting does absolutely nothing, it reloads it right back the way it was... you have to manipulate it directly to have any effect on it.

"This caused a bug where that blue dragon appeared in the Skaal Village but underneath the terrain, so I couldn't do anything."

dying in a black book and a wonky spawn, those are probably not related at all... the easiest way to fix that is 'tai' with nothing selected, to stop all AI processing, 'tcl' so you can fly down below the terrain, tag the dragon, 'getpos z' and see the value, then add like 2000 to it, say it was z 153.93, do 'setpos z 2153' and go back above ground and see how high in the air the dragon is, adjust up or down accordingly til it's high enough it's above the buildings but not so high it won't target ground enemies... once you like the positioning, make sure you're near the ground so you won't die when gravity turns on, click off the dragon twice so nothing is selected, 'tcl' again so meshes become solid, and 'tai' again to start the show when you close console.

So if I save before unlocking a Word of Power, unlock that word, die, and revert to my previous save, the word will still be unlocked? Isn't that sort of broken?

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by judgefidler:

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

The cache doesn't reset unless the game is closed down, which can affect a number of things, shouldn't affect word walls but it doesn't surprise me.

Erm, what do you mean by the cache doesn't reset? Are you talking about how it forced me to have the full Bend Will shot even after I closed and reopened the game?

the settings generated by the game do not reset unless you close the game completely, otherwise quite a few settings in the background remain, causing all sorts of issues, like NPCs remaining hostile despite players reloading to an earlier save.

In this case something that hadn't set correctly was reset when you shut down the game and restarted, could be a number of things, because Skyrim is famour (infamous?) for being buggy.

[Death Approaches]

yes, exactly, if you unlock something in game like a word wall, but load an earlier save, then it's not done yet, so you'll have to do it again. or use console commands.

let's back up - is the word unlocked or not? do you want it unlocked or not?

[judgefidler]

Originally posted by Death Approaches:

yes, exactly, if you unlock something in game like a word wall, but load an earlier save, then it's not done yet, so you'll have to do it again. or use console commands.

let's back up - is the word unlocked or not? do you want it unlocked or not?

The issue had been resolved already, as I commented earlier. But here's what happened:

I had unlocked the third word of Bend Will after defeating the Seekers, but the moment that blue dragon appeared he hit me with a blast of ice that instantly defeated me and forced me out of the book. When I returned to the Skaal Village, he had followed me out and spawned under the map.

In an attempt to fix it, I reverted to my previous save, which I saved just before the arena, and defeated the two Seekers again. But the Word Wall failed to activate - I checked my Shouts and saw the third word for Bend Will was already there. I then tried closing and reopening my game, as some people mentioned doing online, but when I reloaded my save before the arena, I still had the third word of Bend Will unlocked.

I tried reverting back to Chapter 1 of that damn book, and even there I had the third word of Bend Will!