Any reason to level any stat other than Health?

[Uscari]

It seems kind of pointless to level up Magika or Stamina.

Enchantments already allow you to make all schools of magic cost nothing. Even if you can't have all of them free at the same time, you can swap out equipment to get what you need. Sort of makes your base magika pool seem irrelevant.

As for Stamina, between all the alchohol in Skyrim and the beef stew, it doesn't seem like you'll ever run out of stamina for power attacks. Carry weight is a nice bonus but for the trade off to health it doesn't seem worth it.

I don't see any reason to put points into anything other than health.

What do you guys think?

[HoBoMiKe]

I love how using an ability they literally put in the game officially is considered an “exploit.”

No, enchanting 4 pieces of armor with 25% spell reduction is not an “exploit.” You have to be very skilled in enchanting (which is expensive and takes quite a while even paying for training)

It also only negates cost in 1 school of magic. You’ll still need either a deep magicka pool, an ability,, a very high skill+perks, scrolls, or potions to cast from the rest.

Alchemy+enchanting isn’t an exploit either, unless you abuse the “fortify restoration” glitch which is an actual, unintended bug.

[Uscari]

DemonTed eredeti hozzászólása:

The amount of stamina regen items you would need to carry to compensate for putting no points in stamina counters your argument. Survival melee(some minimal casting resto) NO MODS. Especially with frost effects in survival WE NEED points in stamina. Or chanted gear to help, which is only from found items. I play how I like , you play how you like.

Very rude to accuse others of being ignorant of how to play because you like to play a certain way.
Also this is NO MODS. Do you never sprint?? Just seems you must be using mods to compensate for your ... odd decisions.

When did I accuse others of being ignorant of how to play?

For some reason I've noticed in single player games that any time you talk about balance or optimal gameplay people get defensive, like you're trying to tell them how to play.

You don't have to play optimally if you don't want to. I've done plenty of builds that really were not optimal just for the role playing or the fun of it.

What's wrong with exploring which builds are more effective than others?

[SpeedFreak1972]

Oh play optimally did you never consider that a lot of people find that boring and just want to play for fun? Not with a perk sheet in hand and cheese every game mechanic to the max to find the optimal build.

[Quevik]

DemonTed eredeti hozzászólása:

The amount of stamina regen items you would need to carry to compensate for putting no points in stamina counters your argument. Survival melee(some minimal casting resto) NO MODS. Especially with frost effects in survival WE NEED points in stamina. Or chanted gear to help, which is only from found items. I play how I like , you play how you like.

Very rude to accuse others of being ignorant of how to play because you like to play a certain way.
Also this is NO MODS. Do you never sprint?? Just seems you must be using mods to compensate for your ... odd decisions.

You only need a single point of stamina in order to power attack in vanilla. Hence his plan to use beef stew is viable as it regens stamina every second. So, like he said, lack of stamina in that situation is irrelevant.

He also never at any point called other people ignorant nor implied it in any way. You want to talk about being "rude". How about you putting words in somebody elses mouth and then insulting and criticizing them over things they never even said.

Uscari eredeti hozzászólása:

When did I accuse others of being ignorant of how to play?

You didn't. You voiced your opinion on a subject and stated a clear set of bullet points to support you point of view.

Uscari eredeti hozzászólása:

For some reason I've noticed in single player games that any time you talk about balance or optimal gameplay people get defensive, like you're trying to tell them how to play.

The problem there is that alot of people do just that...they try to tell people how to play. Your post is an honest question, asking for opinions. A true open debate. But it's not uncommon to see a similar post that effectively amounts to "Anyone who puts points into a stat other than health is an idiot."

That quote is 100% NOT what you are saying, nor implying, suggesting...etc. But some (other) people WILL attack others for "less optimal" gameplay. And lack of reading comprehension with regards to your post could lead to that conclusion.

Uscari eredeti hozzászólása:

but I've only seen one or two responses that make a real case that hp isn't worth 100% worth speccing into in the long haul.

The best counter arguments I've seen is that high hp is overkill, and that higher magika + magika regen can in theory be better than swapping between apparel for free spells.

This block here is a good example. If you take this statement from the perspective of a casual, open discussion of opinions, then it is absolutely fine. There is an inherent "in my opinion" behind several statements.

"but I've only seen one or two responses that make a real case" (in my opinion)
"The best counter arguments" (in my opinion)

Without the implied "in my opinion", those comments can come across as "You're wrong. Nothing you guys said is a valid argument."

Again, that's not what you meant, but many people seem to lack an understanding of open debate. I've had many an issue in the past trying to get people to understand the difference between an open debate and an argument.

I think the biggest culprit is how we all use the term "you" when referencing "the player" as a generalization. A literal person might take it to mean you're telling THEM how to play when we are, in fact, technically using the term "you" to refer to oneself.

[Uscari]

Quevik eredeti hozzászólása:

The problem there is that alot of people do just that...they try to tell people how to play. Your post is an honest question, asking for opinions. A true open debate. But it's not uncommon to see a similar post that effectively amounts to "Anyone who puts points into a stat other than health is an idiot."

That quote is 100% NOT what you are saying, nor implying, suggesting...etc. But some (other) people WILL attack others for "less optimal" gameplay. And lack of reading comprehension with regards to your post could lead to that conclusion.

Well I'm sorry to hear that people have experienced that. Perhaps I'd be defensive as well if that was my experience regarding balance discussions.

Quevik eredeti hozzászólása:

This block here is a good example. If you take this statement from the perspective of a casual, open discussion of opinions, then it is absolutely fine. There is an inherent "in my opinion" behind several statements.

"but I've only seen one or two responses that make a real case" (in my opinion)
"The best counter arguments" (in my opinion)

Without the implied "in my opinion", those comments can come across as "You're wrong. Nothing you guys said is a valid argument."

Again, that's not what you meant, but many people seem to lack an understanding of open debate. I've had many an issue in the past trying to get people to understand the difference between an open debate and an argument.

I think the biggest culprit is how we all use the term "you" when referencing "the player" as a generalization. A literal person might take it to mean you're telling THEM how to play when we are, in fact, technically using the term "you" to refer to oneself.

Those are some notable observations. I sort of figure it's implied in a discussion forum where we share arguments that each person has their own side and believes themselves to be right.

I mean there's no real point to having a debate if no one is right and no one is wrong. I don't state my opinions as fact, but I do think I'm correct, and that those that disagree with me are incorrect. In order for me to be right, the opposing opinion has to be wrong. I don't see how it can be any other way.

Like if I didn't think that my own opinion was correct, it wouldn't really be my opinion, it would be a theory or a possibility.

But I come from a culture of multiplayer games where in balance threads to emphasize points people kind of exaggerate their certainty. We talk in terms of "This weapon is objectively garbage" and it doesn't really offend anyone because that's just the language we're used to.

I admire how single player gamers want to respect everyone else's choice but I feel like there might be a little oversensitivity about something thinking you're wrong about something.

[Quevik]

Uscari eredeti hozzászólása:

But I come from a culture of multiplayer games where in balance threads to emphasize points people kind of exaggerate their certainty. We talk in terms of "This weapon is objectively garbage" and it doesn't really offend anyone because that's just the language we're used to.

I admire how single player gamers want to respect everyone else's choice but I feel like there might be a little oversensitivity about something thinking you're wrong about something.

Your experience in multiplayer discussions is different than mine...lol

And just to be clear, for most of my points above i was talking broad generalizations (not just skyrim forums but forums in general).

But you are right. People do occasionally get overly sensitive about such conversations. I think it's a sign of the times. Many people today struggle to have a civil debate. Personally, i love talking about politics with people cause i like to hear and understand new perspectives. But it's so hard to find somebody who can debate such things without getting heated. And that can happen with any discussion these days.

Uscari eredeti hozzászólása:

I sort of figure it's implied in a discussion forum where we share arguments that each person has their own side and believes themselves to be right.

I mean there's no real point to having a debate if no one is right and no one is wrong. I don't state my opinions as fact, but I do think I'm correct, and that those that disagree with me are incorrect. In order for me to be right, the opposing opinion has to be wrong. I don't see how it can be any other way.

I heavily disagree with this collection of statements. I'd argue that what typically makes something an opinion is that there cannot be a right or a wrong, merely other perspectives. And to me the whole purpose of a debate is to give voice to those perspectives.

Take the title post. Whether it is worth leveling up other stats besides health depends on your perspective and intent. Only investing points in health is detrimental to me as it removes some of the challenge and, as such, i find it removes the fun from the game.

From the perspective of "keeping the game challenging and keeping some risk" then there is plenty of reason not to put points into health.

From the perspective of a low level mage who never gets hit, health is relatively useless. Magicka carries more impact.

From the perspective of a high level mage with fully enchanted 0 cost gear, magicka is relatively useless and health has more value.

None of these opinions are right nor wrong on the subject of "Any reason to level any stat other than Health?" They are simply opinions that are based on different perspectives. Opinions are opinions by the vary nature of the fact that they are subjective and cannot be right nor wrong.

[Harris]

Uscari eredeti hozzászólása:

Thanks for the replies, I'm enjoying reading your responses.

Here's mine to the pile. I played a lot of vanilla, Enairim and currently Simonrim.

In vanilla, there is no reason to raise any other stat than health. Mages get by with 100% cost reduction enchantment (which is fair, given how magic is crippled by not scaling in vanilla), warriors don't really need stamina outside of power-attacks/shield bashing builds, and archers don't need any other stats than hp at all.

Progression overhauls spice things up. In Enairim, there is a number of things that scale off your max magicka - for example, Restoration perk or blessing of Syrabane gives you 2% mana regen based on your max one. There are likewise weapon perks that make use of excess stamina to make your power attacks more powerful. And then there are enchantments, based specifically around the idea that you leveled a certain stat for the whole game and now want to offset it by bringing up another stat as well (say a squishy mage willing to become not-as-squishy).

Simonrim's Adamant is focused on dual-casting for mages - it gives great benefits for 3x mana costs. It has great buffs, but you are only able to maintain so much at a time because of mana requirement. Stamina is also much needed both for warriors and archers, that now spend it while drawing a bow. However, ultimately you can still run a build that gets by only investing into health. If anything, Simonrim really encourages you picking a stat and then overclocking it as far as you can. Health regen build will allow you convenient means of healing with no need for magic or potions, all the while high health pool naturally contributes to your hp regen as well.

AE makes some careful steps towards encouraging mana leveling. Necromantic Grimoire's Unyielding Ghost is a Novice-level spell that scales based on your max mana (up to 300), making your summon more powerful with it.

Bottom line though? Skyrim is ultimately not a hard game, even when running some ridiculous difficulty mods. You don't need to be a mage or a sneak archer to clear it. Meanwhile being a durable tank that is able to win every fight in the game through pure attrition will make your experience that much smoother and more comfortable.

You could get absurdly powerful and be able to shut down dragons with a lightning storm, but the downside to that would be dying from a random wolf bite you didn't see coming.

[dolmore]

Being a magpie player (can't resist picking up every shiny thing I come across) raising stamina level also raises load carrying capacity and I don't spend as much time in a dungeon crawling along the corridors.

[Mochan]

Lampros eredeti hozzászólása:

Does health even matter unless you mod potions to change their effects to over-time-effect? With vanilla health potions (of course in abundant supply assumed) you can always out-heal damage, it seems.

Well if you only have 100 HP in Legendary you are going to get oneshot and no potion will help you with that.

[Smugass Braixen-Chan]

With the "Imperious - Races of Skyrim" mod;

Argonians rapidly regenerate up to a certain percentage of their HP.

With a high enough max-stamina, you can sprint indefinitally.

In Vanilla, though? It's really player's choice, depending on how much you want to relly on healing items.

Overall, increasing HP is probably always going to be the most important thing. Because if you run out of Mana or Stamina, you can just quaff a potion. Where as, if you run out of Health you die.

[Know Won]

Uscari eredeti hozzászólása:

DemonTed eredeti hozzászólása:

The amount of stamina regen items you would need to carry to compensate for putting no points in stamina counters your argument. Survival melee(some minimal casting resto) NO MODS. Especially with frost effects in survival WE NEED points in stamina. Or chanted gear to help, which is only from found items. I play how I like , you play how you like.

Very rude to accuse others of being ignorant of how to play because you like to play a certain way.
Also this is NO MODS. Do you never sprint?? Just seems you must be using mods to compensate for your ... odd decisions.

When did I accuse others of being ignorant of how to play?

For some reason I've noticed in single player games that any time you talk about balance or optimal gameplay people get defensive, like you're trying to tell them how to play.

You don't have to play optimally if you don't want to. I've done plenty of builds that really were not optimal just for the role playing or the fun of it.

What's wrong with exploring which builds are more effective than others?

You assume your play style is optimal and that is how you point a finger without pointing a finger.

[Uscari]

DemonTed eredeti hozzászólása:

You assume your play style is optimal and that is how you point a finger without pointing a finger.

If that's the case, than having an opinion about anything is "pointing a finger" at someone.

[Know Won]

Uscari eredeti hozzászólása:

DemonTed eredeti hozzászólása:

You assume your play style is optimal and that is how you point a finger without pointing a finger.

If that's the case, than having an opinion about anything is "pointing a finger" at someone.

When your 'opinion' is that you are right and everyone else is wrong. You leave no room for discussion. Therefor you are here to blame/pointfingers and argue not discuss how you could be in fact wrong.

[Uscari]

DemonTed eredeti hozzászólása:

Uscari eredeti hozzászólása:

If that's the case, than having an opinion about anything is "pointing a finger" at someone.

When your 'opinion' is that you are right and everyone else is wrong. You leave no room for discussion. Therefor you are here to blame/pointfingers and argue not discuss how you could be in fact wrong.

There's no room for discussion if you think you're right about something?

Why are you so offended at someone saying that they think you're wrong?

Thinking you're right about something isn't the same as claiming that your opinion is objective fact. You arrive at an opinion using your own judgement and the information you have available to you. You make a call and explain your reasoning. That's normal.

[HazakTheMad]

Have any of you considered writing a novel?
Y'all's capacity for typing is astounding.