Why modding this game is an overly complicated rocket science?

[Afa]

I started Skyrim recently, yes after 14 years. I've followed countless modding guides, decided to let a mod manager like Vortex do most of the job, but even with that mods are f**** disaster to install and work properly. There are vastly different mods clashing with each other, im not even sure how to change the load order properly for each mod, i try all combinations and it still messes something.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by Afa:

I started Skyrim recently, yes after 14 years. I've followed countless modding guides, decided to let a mod manager like Vortex do most of the job, but even with that mods are f**** disaster to install and work properly. There are vastly different mods clashing with each other, im not even sure how to change the load order properly for each mod, i try all combinations and it still messes something.

Modding is nowhere near as complicated as rocket science.

It is however rather Complex, which is different....
Complex is many easier stages that combine to give an impression of it being complicated.

For a start there are a great many beginners guides for modding Skyrim, I recommend Vlad's guides. Second there are Tools for modding, from mod managers to LOOT and SSEedit.
For your load order LOOT is generally recommended (Load Order Optimisation Tool), but it isn't foolproof, and you need to start small and build up to larger load orders, the people with large load orders didn't do it in one go, it took months and even years to get there.

You should also read the pinned topics... Yes it involves reading, but it gives you tools and tips for modding.

[amathy]

Originally posted by Pimp of Sune:

Here and now learning how FOMOD packages are formed and installing mods manually is the best bet, unfortunately.
For modpack more or less big (20GB +/-), you'll spend three times less time installing things manually in comparison with Vortex/NMM/whatever doing what they're doing thinking that it's useful.
Load order management is a problem though...

Wtf? Under absolutely no circumstance is installing mods manually optimal over mod managers outside of very few exceptions like the mod requiring to be installed to the game's directory rather than the data folder.
Load order isn't even the biggest problem, the amount of time you'd spend going through conflicting files after installing any significant amount of mods makes it masochistic and unrealistic for the average user.

[amathy]

Originally posted by Pimp of Sune:

You're trying to persuade me that mod manager managed mods taking x3 space (one for archived copy, one for staged, one for whatever else it does prior to actual deployment), with constant files flopping between all pre-deployment instances, and maximally vague conflict resolution with positive results being not guaranteed is better than taking the matter into my own hands, assembling a folder with mods in the order I need, with overrides I need, with 0 waste of resources.
mmmkay...

...What are you even talking about? Mod managers do not store 3 copies of the same mod, I don't know where you got that information but it's incorrect. You have the downloaded archive, because obviously you need that to install the mod, but you can simply delete that after installation. Vortex then creates a link from the game's folder to the install path, but it does not actually create a second copy of the mod.
And vague conflict resolution? You think you'd have any idea which mods are being overwritten after installing hundreds of mods overwriting files?
Because I do, and easily: https://i.imgur.com/I5BSNB5.png

Originally posted by Pimp of Sune:

Still better than re-assembling whole 20GB repack from scratch just because due to some internal hiccup Vortex "forgot" everything. The time I've wasted on mod managing with Vortex could be spent on writing full damn game from scratch.

And still better than guessing how exactly conflict resolving works.

At some point I'm going to have to say PEBCAK. Plenty of people have made massive mod lists with Vortex with no problems. Nobody is working with 1,000+ mods manually, it simply is not worth the effort and you will absolutely brick your game requiring complete uninstallation - something you never have to do anymore with modern mod managers.

[Grizzlydean]

if you stuggle installing mods just use wabbajack mod packs

[FauxFurry]

One of the things that could help other than reading pinned starter guides on modding sites is reading the description page for every framework mod thoroughly as well as any articles and pinned comments which are part of the mod page.
There are also mod starter guide videos on video streaming sites.

https://youtu.be/ECZFLELSPOc?si=St0eSlmtkrFIkSqY

[PaPaKat]

if your using Vortex , it automatically sorts them for you and if theres a conflict it will give you a pop up in the top right corner of the page , click on it and you can sort the conflict either by using suggested or manually ( sometimes there is no choice and can only manually do it) you can also auto sort your plugins if you select it in the bottom left side of the page and activate or deactivate them there to. it will also tell you if your missing any of the requirements for mods in your LO.sometimes the pop ups dont stay and you need to cllick the bell icon in the top right.
if you have to do a manual download its just a drag and drop ,Vortex now has 7zip included so it is easier.
im running over 200 mods not only from nexus and Bethesda but external sites as well and have no conflicts or glitches in my game. granted it took me awhile to learn i needed to reads the description of the mods and even the comments because they can hold solutions to problems you may encounter.
its not something you can pick up overnight and i would start small get comfortable with it and then add more. 2-3 at a time just in case there is a problem its easier to find and fix than if you add more than that at .
this is just from my personal experience and 10 years modding Skyrim from PS to XB to PC. ( console is manual sort only no help from LOOT or the such)

[amathy]

Originally posted by Pimp of Sune:

Originally posted by amathy:

...What are you even talking about? Mod managers do not store 3 copies of the same mod, I don't know where you got that information but it's incorrect. ... Because I do, and easily: https://i.imgur.com/I5BSNB5.png

Do you yourself know how tools which you advertise are working?
You can't paste imgur URL properly. And you're trying to teach me how tools, with which I struggle for a decade, actually work.

Yes, considering I'm not the one saying that they don't work and have a stable load order of 1,600+ mods. And that is clearly not an issue with the link, Imgur deleted the image...
https://i.postimg.cc/ZYYPS8Yn/346436436436346.png

Mhm. Maybe. Now, if only anyone would pass me a compatible modlist which would contain, say, modern S.L.U.T.S. (kids, don't google). Oh, there's none.
Or CDS (kids don't google) for LE at the very least. Oh, main mod exists in depths of web.archive.org and at some "steal-a-mode" sites only. So no Wabbajack for me.
Ten years ago I could slam main mod + all dependancies manually and be alright. Now I need someone to jump through all the hoops for me AND post it on a site which don't have per-mod search. Or, I don't know, exercise telepathy or something to bump onto compatible modlist in the wild.
Sheesh.
Wabbajack effort is noble because it's trying to solve one of sympthoms, assembly of sure-to-be-compatible mods in one place.
But it doesn't solve the problem itself.

Just make your own mod list instead of relying on Collections and Wabbajack to do everything? Or download a list and then add whatever mods you're missing on top of it? And ten years ago people didn't know what they were doing, which is part of why everyone's games in Oldrim were unstable.
There are solutions to your problem, you just have to put in effort - something you should expect when modding any game.

[AshenBuncakes]

It's a learning curve. I learned what to do by doing the dumbest things imaginable, and through a process of elimination, (and a few years) I slowly got it right. I would definitely look up guides etc. and not brute force it like I did.

[Zero McDol]

Dunno. It's a engine thing, imo.

I tried manually adding mods to this game, and failed miserably. I tried looking at guides, and failed miserably. Once I started using Vortex, then using mods became a whole lot easier for me.

Thankfully, I don't have this sort of complication with Cyberpunk 2077. Mods are easy to install and uninstall, though I have switched to using Vortex for that game as well, in recent months.

[Steve]

it's dead easy though..

I modded it on my PC then installed it and modded it on my Steam Deck and then installed it on my Legion Go and modded that too.

it's really not hard in the slightest.

[Mathius]

I sympathize OP. Apparently Bodyslide is a thing that everyone uses now, but try to learn it on your own from a video and you have to sit through an hour long presentation instead of someone giving you the basics and then you do get through it and they're using a different version or getting different results.

Then you have people like the ones in this thread that get downright hostile when you tell them you don't use a mod manager.

And lets not forget the ones who think they have to "clean" every mod and then they remove half the crap that made it work in the first place, so they complain it's a bad mod.

[amathy]

Originally posted by Mathius:

Then you have people like the ones in this thread that get downright hostile when you tell them you don't use a mod manager.

Nobody cares if you want to install mods manually. We care if you tell someone that's the best way to install mods. It's terrible advice and will cause people to waste hours breaking their game and making them completely wipe their game folder to reinstall everything. There's a reason why every guide and every experienced modder will tell you to use a mod manager.

Originally posted by Mathius:

Apparently Bodyslide is a thing that everyone uses now, but try to learn it on your own from a video and you have to sit through an hour long presentation instead of someone giving you the basics and then you do get through it and they're using a different version or getting different results.

Download bodyslide
Download a bodyslide preset or use one that comes with a bodyslide compatible body replacer
Pick the bodyslide preset in the bodyslide app where it says preset at the top
Make sure build morphs at the bottom is checked
Ctrl+click batch build
Choose what folder you want the files to go to
Click ok

[Delphinus]

It shouldnt be but thanks to Beths greed and constant updates it is >.> From the looks of it SSE will be there last good game but dont tell that too the Beth fanboi/simps o.o That Shatter Space DLC makes obvious Beth lost there magic and only care about money while putting the least amount of effort <.< They have been milking Skyrim for so long they forgot how too make good games o.O

[Inquisitor Firebrand]

elder scrolls games are by far the least complicated games to mod

[Doom Sayer]

Its more so incompatibility and patches needed than load order. I use MO2 and just click smooth brain click sort and my game works. On actual install order its dependency based so its self explanatory.