I'm going to Rant about Riften, because I've Come to Realize I hate that City. (Very Long Post.)

[Venom Candle]

Never have I seen a city in any Elder Scrolls game have such an aggressively one-dimensional character, that it begins to feel less like a city, and more like a theme park. Even though there are loading screen bits alluding to Riften's importance as an agricultural breadbasket, the actual city in the game is really about one thing and one thing only - being the HQ of the Thieves Guild.

And boy, does the city *really* feel the need to drive that fact home. I explore the city for more than ten minutes, and the game feels the need to say, "Hey, in case you weren't aware, you're in the city of the Thieves Guild." And I'm like, "Yes, I'm aware. You have told me 500 times now."

First of all, the city leaves a first impression that tastes poorly in my mouth, and not in a way that I think the devs intended. Visiting the city for the first time will lock all gates to the city, except the one at the front. They even painstakingly designed it so that you couldn't even use the prison escape route to break into the city, which would have been a creative and interesting solution befitting a rouge character.

But no, you HAVE to go through the front gate, so that you HAVE to deal with the guard tries to shake you down. Once you get past him, however, the city's not done janking you, as there's a meathead conveniently waiting on the other side of the one gate you're forced to go through so he can heckle you with his "mafia tough guy" act.

Then, if you make the mistake of heading straight to the town center during daytime, or going to the Bee and Barb at night, you will be accosted by the Thieves Guild recruiter. Now, it doesn't matter what kind of character you play. You could be roleplaying as a Lawful Good paladin of Zenithar, and you will still be approached out of nowhere by the recruiter to Skyrim's largest crime org. Why? Because you're the protagonist!

Now, hopefully you see my frustration that this kind of railroading and shoehorning is a problem that Skyrim has had moreso than the last two entries, and Riften's intro is a big example of this. The motto "Go where you want, be who you want" falls short when the game says, "Yes, but you actually need to go here and do this."

Then, as you explore the city more and more, you realize that Riften's pandemic of organized crime and corruption is literally the one and only thing that makes it unique to the other cities and towns. And this is ridiculous, because no community in their right mind would want to be defined by how much of a crime infested armpit they are. That would be terrible for business, and the jarl's coffers.

Even the very sigil of Riften's hold banner features a stereotypical symbol to represent thieves and rogues. Talk about being on the nose. Even the jarl's very name, "Law-Giver" is such a subtle take of irony that I almost didn't catch it.

It also doesn't help that I find the Thieves Guild questline of Skyrim to be very lackluster and banal compared to its Oblivion counterpart.

Compare Riften to say, Whiterun, and the difference is as clear as day. Whiterun is also home to a guild, known as the Companions. The Companions and their HQ make up a sizable slice of what makes Whitrun the city that it is. However, if you were to try to describe Whiterun as "The city where the Companions live", you would simply be wrong. Because there are so many other things that go on in Whiterun that are completely unrelated to the Companions that makes Whiterun FEEL like a real town with a lot of things happening, compared to Riften.

The Companions build Whiterun's character, but don't define it. The Thieves Guild is such an obsessive emphasis for Riften, that it becomes awkward, annoying, and frankly not very immersive.

Think of a person who tries to build their entire persona around having one aspect of their personality that doesn't even make much sense to have as the core of their personality, and that's how I see Riften.

[Koumori]

Yeah, Riften is pretty much just "Thieves Guild: The City." Oh, and it's the place where you attend your nuptials, so... there's that, I guess.

I wish you could work with Mjoll and Aerin to dismantle the Thieves Guild, similarly to how you can destroy the Dark Brotherhood. I'm too much of a goody two-shoes to join the Thieves Guild, but I can't perform ye olde sting operation to get them arrested or even just kill them, so I'm forced to look the other way on that festering den of corruption.

[Venom Candle]

Originally posted by Koumori:

Yeah, Riften is pretty much just "Thieves Guild: The City." Oh, and it's the place where you attend your nuptials, so... there's that, I guess.

I wish you could work with Mjoll and Aerin to dismantle the Thieves Guild, similarly to how you can destroy the Dark Brotherhood. I'm too much of a goody two-shoes to join the Thieves Guild, but I can't perform ye olde sting operation to get them arrested or even just kill them, so I'm forced to look the other way on that festering den of corruption.

Oh, the marriage thing. I forgot about that. Mostly because there's only two people I'd consider for marriage, one of them is tied to the werewolf questline which I don't do, and the other isn't available for marriage without mods.

[ralphtobybob]

You can decline membership in the Thieves Guild. As long as you don't interact with Brynjolf afterwards; the topic won't come up again. There are a few errands from some NPCs and if you're into it, there's a fishing questline.

Riften is out of the way and isolated compared to some of the other holds, so apart from a lot of merchants and a nearby shrine of Zenithar, it doesn't have much going for it.

Even one of the roads out just abruptly ends.

There are probably a lot of mods for Riften beyond city overhauls.

[dolmore]

It's just a game. No faction in Skyrim is exactly "pure of heart" (not even the Companions you're so fond of) and none can make a claim on the moral high ground. Each major hold revolves around a particular faction, but if you choose not to go there because of that, then it's your loss.

[Yellowbeard]

Sure...and 'Banana Republic' Markarth is a great town.

[Docsprock]

You can enter Riften by swimming to the docks and going through the meadery to bypass the front gate. You can decline Brynjolf's offer.

[Freeman]

And then you can still join and become the leader of the Thieves Guild after butchering the simple initiation quest to pick a single pocket.

[isomorphic_projection]

Originally posted by Docsprock:

You can enter Riften by swimming to the docks and going through the meadery to bypass the front gate. You can decline Brynjolf's offer.

That's what i do.

[Abisha]

whole Riften feels out of place.

it's some kind of dock city but it not connected to sea.... to make matters worse it's not even got a decent lake.

if solitude and riften got switched it would makes more sense.

[gFreak696]

I like it. The shanty vibe, and a house that opens to a lake. And the surrounding area is quite nice to walk through when the sun comes out and shines through the birch.

I think you're just a pessimist.

[alexander_dougherty]

You can go anywhere and do nearly anything you want to.
The game never promised never to try to get you to join the factions, just that you can do nearly anything you want to...

And there are plenty of games that are worse than Skyrim at this.... plenty of games where the city is a one theme town...


Don't m9stake me, Skyrim isn't great at this, but there are worse games for it.

[isomorphic_projection]

It can go further, but then there's that bloody log blocking the stream. Near the Fortress.
Well just think it's the great lakes or something similar.

[Yellowbeard]

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sociology+border+town&ia=web

[Steelfleece]

I dunno, RIften does have the meadery, fishing, and getting yourself a psycho horse who you'll want to set essential so he doesn't die the instant he first NO FROST THAT'S A DRAGON YOU IDIOT. That's better than Winterhold, whose entire character is 'We hate the one potential source of income in what's left of the city and also we refuse to do anything to improve our lot.'

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by Steelfleece:

I dunno, RIften does have the meadery, fishing, and getting yourself a psycho horse who you'll want to set essential so he doesn't die the instant he first NO FROST THAT'S A DRAGON YOU IDIOT. That's better than Winterhold, whose entire character is 'We hate the one potential source of income in what's left of the city and also we refuse to do anything to improve our lot.'

I forgo the horse, it can make several things more difficult... due to bugs tbh.