Fellow Modders, I Required Aid

[Rage Embodied]

For the love of the Aedra, what the hell is wrong with my setup, I thought I was experienced, but I'm completely stumped, any ideas? I have like five different ways to see the issue, and yet none of my experience allows me to correctly interpret the issue, I have been shaving my mod list down for a week, I crash precisely 2.5 seconds after character creation appears with Mr. Default Nord standing there. Shader issue? I have NAT.ENB installed exactly as it should be. Physics issue? This seems probable, but no solution I have applied has alleviated the issue. The is a single flicker as the shader and ENB effects pile on upon initiation upon character creation initiation, and no other in-game hints. If you need more info, I will post everything except my damned bank information and social security at this point, I'd just like some guidance, at least to approach a solution. I've spent far too long trying to resolve this to just rage-uninstall despite my instinct to do so.

There are no delinquent masters, no wrong version masters, no unresolved conflicts, all patches possible applied and ordered...idk what else to look for, I have like 1 or 2 creature/AI overhaul mods, Nether's Follower Framework, Relationship Dialogue Overhaul (with patch for Nether's), and a whole bunch of non-overlapping dialogue expansion mods. Anyway...

Here's the suspicious stack:
Unhandled exception "EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION" at 0x7FF6917A9843 SkyrimSE.exe+0CE9843 call [rdi+0x10]

SYSTEM SPECS:
OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Home v10.0.19045
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10750H CPU @ 2.60GHz
GPU #1: Nvidia TU104M [GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER Mobile / Max-Q]
GPU #2: Intel CometLake-H GT2 [UHD Graphics]
GPU #3: Microsoft Basic Render Driver
PHYSICAL MEMORY: 12.39 GB/31.82 GB
GPU MEMORY: 4.87/7.05 GB
Detected Virtual Machine: Thread Expert (100%)

PROBABLE CALL STACK:
[ 0] 0x7FF6917A9843 SkyrimSE.exe+0CE9843 -> 69036+0x53 call [rdi+0x10]
[ 1] 0x7FF690DFD8D9 SkyrimSE.exe+033D8D9 -> 21891+0x59 test eax, eax
[ 2] 0x7FFA4E2A81CB ConsoleUtilSSE.dll+00281CB
[ 3] 0x7FFA4E29624F ConsoleUtilSSE.dll+001624F
[ 4] 0x7FFA4E29B01C ConsoleUtilSSE.dll+001B01C
[ 5] 0x7FFA4E296D27 ConsoleUtilSSE.dll+0016D27
[ 6] 0x7FF691EFDE05 SkyrimSE.exe+143DE05 -> 104651+0x205 test al, al
[ 7] 0x7FF691F0EAF9 SkyrimSE.exe+144EAF9 -> 104853+0x789 mov r14d, eax
[ 8] 0x7FF691F0F7B3 SkyrimSE.exe+144F7B3 -> 104857+0x193 call 0x00007FF69178A240
[ 9] 0x7FF691F04314 SkyrimSE.exe+1444314 -> 104767+0x104 lea r8, [rbp+0x67]
[10] 0x7FF6914809E7 SkyrimSE.exe+09C09E7 -> 53926+0xEE7 test r15b, r15b
[11] 0x7FF6911063D8 SkyrimSE.exe+06463D8 -> 36564+0x538 xorps xmm1, xmm1
[12] 0x7FF9EC4611C9 hdtSMP64.dll+00C11C9 cmp byte ptr [rbx+0x10], 0x00 | C:\Games\Faster HDT-SMP\skse64_2_02_06\src\skse64\hdtSMP64\Hooks.cpp:314 ?onFrame@UnkEngine@hdt@@QEAAXXZ
[13] 0x7FF6910FEAD5 SkyrimSE.exe+063EAD5 -> 36544+0x165 test bl, bl
[14] 0x7FF691FFBB8E SkyrimSE.exe+153BB8E -> 109636+0x106 mov ebx, eax
[15] 0x7FFA87447374 KERNEL32.DLL+0017374
[16] 0x7FFA8903CC91 ntdll.dll+004CC91

REGISTERS:
RAX 0x2B2EFC9820 (void*)
RCX 0x1F76FF34F80 (Script*)
Flags: 0x00000008 kInitialized
FormID: 0xFF000850
FormType: Script (19)
RDX 0x2B2EFC9760 (void*)
RBX 0x0 (size_t) [0]
RSP 0x2B2EFC9700 (void*)
RBP 0x2B2EFC9820 (void*)
RSI 0x0 (size_t) [0]
RDI 0x1F76FF34F80 (Script*)
Flags: 0x00000008 kInitialized
FormID: 0xFF000850
FormType: Script (19)
R8 0x1 (size_t) [1]
R9 0x2B2EFC9758 (void*)
R10 0x7FFA626C0000 (void*)
R11 0x7FFA626D1A37 (void* -> VCRUNTIME140.dll+0011A37 )
R12 0x0 (size_t) [0]
R13 0x1F76FF34F80 (Script*)
Flags: 0x00000008 kInitialized
FormID: 0xFF000850
FormType: Script (19)
R14 0x104 (size_t) [260]
R15 0x2B2EFC9B68 (void*)

[Fear2288]

Which version of ConsoleUtilSSE are you using?

Because the original by Fudgyduff hasn’t been touched since October 2022 and is confirmed to cause crashes with the latest version of the game. There is a ConsoleUtilSSE NG which does work with the current 1.6.1170 though.

Also, perhaps look at utilizing a crash log scanner. It can help way more than trying to translate your log yourself or expecting others to do so.

CLA SSE works pretty well and has helped me resolve quite a few issues.

[Rage Embodied]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

Which version of ConsoleUtilSSE are you using?

Because the original by Fudgyduff hasn’t been touched since October 2022 and is confirmed to cause crashes with the latest version of the game. There is a ConsoleUtilSSE NG which does work with the current 1.6.1170 though.

Also, perhaps look at utilizing a crash log scanner. It can help way more than trying to translate your log yourself or expecting others to do so.

CLA SSE works pretty well and has helped me resolve quite a few issues.

I am using the NG version of ConsoleUtilSSE ;-; which exponentiated my confusion.
But I will give that utility a try sometime this week, I've got to get to bed unfortunately and I've a busy week, but I hope CLA SSE works, I'll f***ing marry you if it does xD Thank you for the recommendation! I'll be back with a reply when I get some time to try it.

[smr1957]

Did you try doing it the old fashioned way - which is still the best way of determining what mod is at issue when you have a problem with the game (even if people like to keep recommending crash logs which most cannot read or do not know how to use effectively, thus tripling - at least - the time required to solve an issue). Follow this general outline on how to troubleshoot your build:

Troubleshooting Your Load Order
https://steamcommunity.com/app/489830/discussions/0/3109142236155416522/

Though, it may be a good idea to do a clean reinstall first, as just validating the files or uninstalling and reinstalling the game is not enough - files can get left over and they will continue to effect your game. Follow this guide EXACTLY and do everything it says to the letter:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2743619856

And DO NOT clean or edit the Master files or any Creation Club content.

Links are from the following section of the PINNED TOPIC Helpful Links and References:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2882871440

Good luck!

[Rage Embodied]

Originally posted by smr1957:

Did you try doing it the old fashioned way - which is still the best way of determining what mod is at issue when you have a problem with the game (even if people like to keep recommending crash logs which most cannot read or do not know how to use effectively, thus tripling - at least - the time required to solve an issue). Follow this general outline on how to troubleshoot your build:

Troubleshooting Your Load Order
https://steamcommunity.com/app/489830/discussions/0/3109142236155416522/

Though, it may be a good idea to do a clean reinstall first, as just validating the files or uninstalling and reinstalling the game is not enough - files can get left over and they will continue to effect your game. Follow this guide EXACTLY and do everything it says to the letter:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2743619856

And DO NOT clean or edit the Master files or any Creation Club content.

Links are from the following section of the PINNED TOPIC Helpful Links and References:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2882871440

Good luck!

Thanks for the recommendation! I'm currently following Fear's recommendation and finding various mismatched settings as well as finding threads relating to exactly the issue I am experiencing, if this promising path does not lead to a solid solution, I will most certainly try your suggestion. So far, however, Fear's recommendation has opened new alleyways to various issues I was completely incapable of locating, VERY promising. Seems to me to have been an issue with not using AVX with Faster SMP, which means my instinct that it was something to do with physics was right, I just couldn't quite find the exact malady. PRAY GOD THIS WORKS xD I really want to push off clean installs until I am certain tweaking is a dead end.

Thank you very much, your suggestion is a perfect backup plan should this route not work. I appreciate it greatly!

[Fear2288]

Yeah, CLA SSE is a useful little tool for drawing your attention to issues you may have not even realized existed.

Though as with all crash logger translator type utilities you gotta treat what it says as possibilities - pointing you in a potential direction.

Sometimes logs can return false positives, and they seem to struggle identifying crashes caused by the actual game instead of a mod.

Funny that you mention AVX because that was one I was getting too and CLA SSE helped me out by identifying that I wasn’t using the correct type of AVX for my setup. I used its suggestion and changed the AVX type by reinstalling my physics mods and choosing the suggested type.

Since then, I’ve had noticeably less physics-related crashes and performance with physics enabled assets has improved.

Now I just have two crash types that I can’t figure out how to solve:

1. Decapitation crash. Supposedly it’s caused by a NiNode relating to NPC heads that have overlays on them. I guess in vanilla Skyrim NPCs don’t have overlays on their faces, but using something like Race Menu makes that a possibility, so the game freaks out and crashes when you decap an NPC that has a face overlay or a certain kind - or it just happens at random…I can’t seem to find a solution other than removing Race Menu, but that ain’t happening. So I just make sure to save often and hold my breath everytime I see a decap killmove initiate.

2. Some kinda crash relating to what I assume must be either Precision’s hit stop feature or maybe something sound related. Occasionally if I’m in combat in a confined area and I’m swinging my weapon around hitting multiple surfaces (walls, furniture, objects, etc) as well as the enemy the game will crash. CLA SSE hasn’t been super helpful in identifying what exactly is causing this crash nor how to solve it.

[smr1957]

Great! It's always good to have a backup plan - but Fear knows a tremendous amount about the game, so you are in good hands.

Hope you get it figured out soon and can get back to playing!

Once again, good luck!

[Rage Embodied]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHH, FEAR DUN' DIDDLY DID IT, CLA SSE was like the voice of God, it picked out what was wrong PERFECTLY. Thank you both so much, Fear, your wisdom has saved me my sanity and countless hours, smr, thank you so very much as well, should Rome come tumbling down, you have given me a tremendous guide on how to proceed. Thank you both so, so much!

The issue, for any that might find it useful: Faster SMP was being used without AVX, which may or may not have been the solution, however what seems most likely was that the MCM, FOMOD-integrated option, was causing near immediate CTD's. So in the FOMOD for FSMP, using the MCM option (and likely any option other than AVX) results in a game-breaking CTD, selecting non-MCM options and the standard AVX option are the only functioning choices in the current build for my computer. Also, XMSSE (XM Skeleton) had a few patches for mods that I had shaved from my load-order, so cleaning those up most certainly helped as well.

CLA SSE! What a tremendous tool! Man, thank you both so very much. Have some Steam points x) Its the least I can do.

[Rage Embodied]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

Yeah, CLA SSE is a useful little tool for drawing your attention to issues you may have not even realized existed.

Though as with all crash logger translator type utilities you gotta treat what it says as possibilities - pointing you in a potential direction.

Sometimes logs can return false positives, and they seem to struggle identifying crashes caused by the actual game instead of a mod.

Funny that you mention AVX because that was one I was getting too and CLA SSE helped me out by identifying that I wasn’t using the correct type of AVX for my setup. I used its suggestion and changed the AVX type by reinstalling my physics mods and choosing the suggested type.

Since then, I’ve had noticeably less physics-related crashes and performance with physics enabled assets has improved.

Now I just have two crash types that I can’t figure out how to solve:

1. Decapitation crash. Supposedly it’s caused by a NiNode relating to NPC heads that have overlays on them. I guess in vanilla Skyrim NPCs don’t have overlays on their faces, but using something like Race Menu makes that a possibility, so the game freaks out and crashes when you decap an NPC that has a face overlay or a certain kind - or it just happens at random…I can’t seem to find a solution other than removing Race Menu, but that ain’t happening. So I just make sure to save often and hold my breath everytime I see a decap killmove initiate.

2. Some kinda crash relating to what I assume must be either Precision’s hit stop feature or maybe something sound related. Occasionally if I’m in combat in a confined area and I’m swinging my weapon around hitting multiple surfaces (walls, furniture, objects, etc) as well as the enemy the game will crash. CLA SSE hasn’t been super helpful in identifying what exactly is causing this crash nor how to solve it.

Precision was giving me a grievous amount of potential compatibility issues with my current mod built Mr. Fear, while it may be essential for your build, I would advise a strong skepticism towards your continued use of it. It just seems to not play nice with various mesh edits and animation/movement/combat mods, despite patching and reduced amounts of warnings, Precision seems to bring along with it incompatibilities that are simply based around the fact that the engine for Skyrim is so clunky.

Its a tremendous mod, however it seems to be a Bugatti in a back-road village, it just causes issues by nature of its environment and I hope some genius modder is able to come up with some clever general solution to make Skyrim more adherent to the newer gaming standards that we as gamers are coming to expect, no matter how stuck we (or at least, I) are in the past.

As for the decapitation crashes, this has been true for literal years, so long as Race Menu has been around, this has been an issue. The solution? You alluded to it, the other one is uninstalling the game and playing other things, those are the two choices that I am aware of after nearly 13 years of modding Skyrim.

Unfortunate, but, every solution applied so far seems to be temporary, former solutions were not updated as the game was updated, and I am aware of no new solutions. But hey, anything is possible, there very well may be a solution at the moment, its just we don't know about it! If I find it, I'll be more than happy to post it here, after testing it of course.

[Fear2288]

Yeah I was contemplating removing Precision but to be honest I don’t find myself generating this crash very often - especially now that I’m aware of it and just kite enemies into more open areas.

Precision can just be so satisfying sometimes, like striking a bandit from the right - sending him careening to the left - and immediately following up with a strike from the left that kills him and sends him back the other direction and crumpling to the ground before he even has a chance to recover and get his footing from the first strike.

Or cracking someone across the face and seeing their upper torso and head react and move with the hit.

So like Race Menu, it may just have to be a “necessary evil” to tolerate in regards to its occasional crashes.

I may try removing it on my next playthrough and verify whether or not A) that crash is indeed likely caused by Precision and B) if I can truly abide not having it anymore

[Rage Embodied]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

Yeah I was contemplating removing Precision but to be honest I don’t find myself generating this crash very often - especially now that I’m aware of it and just kite enemies into more open areas.

Precision can just be so satisfying sometimes, like striking a bandit from the right - sending him careening to the left - and immediately following up with a strike from the left that kills him and sends him back the other direction and crumpling to the ground before he even has a chance to recover and get his footing from the first strike.

Or cracking someone across the face and seeing their upper torso and head react and move with the hit.

So like Race Menu, it may just have to be a “necessary evil” to tolerate in regards to its occasional crashes.

I may try removing it on my next playthrough and verify whether or not A) that crash is indeed likely caused by Precision and B) if I can truly abide not having it anymore

I wish I didn't feel exactly the way you do, however...I do. Precision is a truly "next-gen" mod that just...it really transforms the gameplay in a way that is phenomenal.

As for RaceMenu, I fear it is indeed the issue, with 90% certainty. My playthroughs without it almost never CTD, whereas with it, it became an issue either immediately or deep into a playthrough. Perhaps it is something to do with the more complex masks/tints which are enabled by RaceMenu, however, the difference of cause seems negligible, for me, it has always been an issue, only negatable to an extent, never resolvable. Hope one of us finds a solution, because I really find it to be a vertibrae in the spine of modding Skyrim, its just not the same without it.