The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition

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Fear2288 2024 年 8 月 24 日 上午 9:10
So Where’s Jygg?
It’s been a long time since I played Oblivion and it’s Shivering Isles DLC, but if IIRC by the end of it it’s revealed that Jyggalag is not only one of the most powerful Daedric Princes whom the others are terrified of, but your actions have just released him from his “prison” of being Sheogorath 99% of the time.

The Hero of Kvatch is then made the new Sheogorath, and Jyggalag is free to roam Oblivion once again for the first time in hundreds if not thousands of years.

Yet…he’s not even mentioned in TESV.

Did I miss something?

Did the events of Shivering Isles just not actually happen? Is the ending where the player becomes the new Sheogorath and Jygg is free not considered “canon”? Is Jygg not actually free and is just now tied to the “new” Sheogorath?

Did the other Daedric Princes just quickly find a way to “trap” him again off-screen or something?

Just seems sorta strange that Jygg is apparently so powerful that the other Princes are terrified of him, and now he’s free, yet he isn’t even mentioned in TESV.
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Neo 2024 年 8 月 24 日 上午 9:20 
Maybe he just didn't care about the LDB. But yeah it would of been cool to see him in his more logical form instead of a raving lunatic.
最後修改者:Neo; 2024 年 8 月 24 日 上午 9:21
Ghost 2024 年 8 月 24 日 上午 9:30 
There isn't really a reason to bring him up in the context of the game? Outside of the creation dlc stuff and a few books, he has no involvement.

At the end of Shivering Isles he said something about roaming Oblivion, and Legends has a whole thing about Sheogorath suppressing his memories of Jyggalag, but that just seems like they realised they forgot. Presumably he's still on vacation.
Valden21 2024 年 8 月 24 日 上午 9:48 
The events of Shivering Isles DID happen, as seen by Sheogorath's dialogue during his Daedric Quest. He actually mentions being present for the entirety of the Oblivion Crisis, and mentions things that only the Champion of Cyrodiil would have known. The Champion of Cyrodiil BECAME Sheogorath.

I think that's why we haven't seen much of Jyggalag recently; Sheogorath's holding him in check. Part of the reason Jyggalag was able to cause so much damage before was that he had no opposite number; the other Daedric Princes opposed him, but none of them personified that opposition like Sheogorath does. So even though he's now free, Sheogorath keeps him from repeating his earlier actions just by existing. Between the two of them, there's a balance.
最後修改者:Valden21; 2024 年 8 月 24 日 上午 9:48
Fear2288 2024 年 8 月 24 日 上午 10:38 
@Ghost

He may not have a direct involvement in the main story of TESV, but in the greater setting he certainly seems to.

I mean, this a Daedric Prince that ones the likes of Molag Bal, Mehrunes Dagon, and Namira were SCARED OF because of how powerful he supposedly was/is. You’d think that if he was free and able to roam Oblivion again, it would start some kind of Daedric war as Jyggalag launched some kind of campaign against the rest of them to bring “order”.

Regardless of what’s happening in Mundus, you’d think an all-out Daedric war would spill out in some fashion in the mortal realm, or at the very least would be mentioned.

@Valden

Good point. As the form of Sheogorath served as Jygg’s prison it could make sense that’s it’s Sheo who is the only one able to keep him in check.

You’d still think though that if that were the case, Sheo wouldn’t be found on vacation in Pelagius’ mind (where it sounds like he’s been for a long time) or he would’ve at least mentioned it.
Ghost 2024 年 8 月 24 日 上午 10:48 
Even on the assumption that there is some war going on, who would it be mentioned by? The very few dremora that can be talked to?

The daedra princes all have their own personal things going on in Skyrim, which kinda takes priority over whatever may be happening elsewhere as far as our character is concerned, and the whole point of Oblivion was that there could no longer be any spillover.
Anvos 2024 年 8 月 24 日 下午 12:56 
Honestly we have no idea how long it takes a Deadric Prince to reform after their killed, let alone one in a special case like Jyggallag. Also keep in mind he's likely no longer the strongest Deadric Prince given he had to leave part of his power and his realm behind to free himself from the curse.
最後修改者:Anvos; 2024 年 8 月 24 日 下午 12:58
Fear2288 2024 年 8 月 24 日 下午 1:00 
引用自 Ghost
Even on the assumption that there is some war going on, who would it be mentioned by? The very few dremora that can be talked to?

The daedra princes all have their own personal things going on in Skyrim, which kinda takes priority over whatever may be happening elsewhere as far as our character is concerned, and the whole point of Oblivion was that there could no longer be any spillover.
You literally speak to every Daedric Prince during their associated quest.

There’s also this entire DLC that features Hermaeus Mora as a secondary antagonist called Dragonborn.

The opportunities for a Jyggalag-led war against the other Princes to be even just mentioned are there.

As for “spill over”, the events of TESIV shut the Gates of Oblivion “forever” and ended Dagon’s attempt to take over Mundus.

Oblivion Gates were just the means by which Dagon was able to bring himself and his minions from the Deadlands to Mundus.

The end of TESIV is not supposed to be interpreted as meaning that all travel/interaction between Oblivion and Mundus is now impossible.

If that were true - there would be no Daedric quests in TESV, Conjuring Magic and Necromancy wouldn’t work anymore, you wouldn’t be going to the Soul Cairn in Dawnguard, and you wouldn’t be going into Apocrypha in Dragonborn.
Ghost 2024 年 8 月 24 日 下午 8:50 
During their associated quests - where they are concerned with said quests, it would be weird for them to just go "btw there's a war going on against Jyggalag."

- Azura has had her star stolen and corrupted.
- Clavicus has lost/kicked out Barbas, again, and it's really him you work for this time.
- Boethiah's looking for a new champion among her followers when you turn up.
- Hermaeus Mora just wants his book back.
- Hircine is in the middle of a Bloodmoon, again.
- Malacath only cares about Orcs.
- Dagon doesn't have a quest for you, just wants someone worthy to have his razor.
- Mephala has lost most of her power and her blade is trapped.
- Meridia's temple has been defiled.
- Namira technically doesn't have a quest for you, just rewards you for being a cannibal.
- Nocturnal's been stolen from, again.
- Peryite's plan to spread a plague has been halted and he wants revenge.
- Sanguine just wants to party.
- Sheogorath is Sheogorath.
- Vaermina's staff is trapped and going to be destroyed.

Sheogorath's definitely would've been the one to mention it in or do something related instead of poking people with a staff, but considering how we went from Bloodmoon in Morrowind to Bloodmoon in Skyrim, we'd probably have ended up with just 1 knight or pillar and somehow that would have ended the greymarch again.

---
Hermaeus Mora who still only cares about his books and gaining the knowledge of the Skaal, and only helps you defeat Miraak in exchange for that and his disloyalty.

---
I phrased that poorly. Things can still get through, but not on the large scale. The summons are temporary, don't talk to us, and have no reason to bring it up.
There are no great big permanently open doorways in between (beyond the cc), and most are incapable of the ritual to open/create said doorways or permanently summon a daedra, where one might theoretically mention it at some point if they'd ever been fleshed out as characters.
---

We're also assuming that he's still a threat currently. With him and Sheogorath existing at the same time, he no longer has a realm.
最後修改者:Ghost; 2024 年 8 月 24 日 下午 8:51
alexander_dougherty 2024 年 8 月 25 日 上午 2:03 
Bethesda seem to have forgotten they created him, and haven't written anything for him....
They remember that the Hero of Kvatch became Sheogorath, but didn't bother to follow through on the rest....
Which is typical of Bethesda, maybe he will eventually resurface in TES6... maybe he won't, only time and Bethesda will tell....
Valden21 2024 年 8 月 25 日 上午 6:52 
引用自 Fear2288
You literally speak to every Daedric Prince during their associated quest.

The end of TESIV is not supposed to be interpreted as meaning that all travel/interaction between Oblivion and Mundus is now impossible.

If that were true - there would be no Daedric quests in TESV, Conjuring Magic and Necromancy wouldn’t work anymore, you wouldn’t be going to the Soul Cairn in Dawnguard, and you wouldn’t be going into Apocrypha in Dragonborn.
Are you sure you're not misinterpreting how the covenant between Akatosh and St. Alessia worked? The way I understand it, the liminal barrier that covenant established prevents all travel/communication between Oblivion and Mundus that starts from the Oblivion-side of the barrier. However, any inter-planar travel/communication that starts from the Nirn side is unaffected. Prior to the end-game of Oblivion, that covenant needed the Amulet of Kings and a Dragonborn Emperor. But Martin's actions changed that, by making the barrier permanent. So Conjuration/Mysticism spells and talking to Daedra at their shrines is still possible, because all those instances are started by mortals on the Nirn side of the barrier.
最後修改者:Valden21; 2024 年 8 月 25 日 上午 6:53
Fear2288 2024 年 8 月 25 日 下午 12:27 
引用自 Valden21
引用自 Fear2288
You literally speak to every Daedric Prince during their associated quest.

The end of TESIV is not supposed to be interpreted as meaning that all travel/interaction between Oblivion and Mundus is now impossible.

If that were true - there would be no Daedric quests in TESV, Conjuring Magic and Necromancy wouldn’t work anymore, you wouldn’t be going to the Soul Cairn in Dawnguard, and you wouldn’t be going into Apocrypha in Dragonborn.
Are you sure you're not misinterpreting how the covenant between Akatosh and St. Alessia worked? The way I understand it, the liminal barrier that covenant established prevents all travel/communication between Oblivion and Mundus that starts from the Oblivion-side of the barrier. However, any inter-planar travel/communication that starts from the Nirn side is unaffected. Prior to the end-game of Oblivion, that covenant needed the Amulet of Kings and a Dragonborn Emperor. But Martin's actions changed that, by making the barrier permanent. So Conjuration/Mysticism spells and talking to Daedra at their shrines is still possible, because all those instances are started by mortals on the Nirn side of the barrier.
I think you quoted the wrong person, I’m not the one who originally stated that the end of TESIV meant that anything from Oblivion couldn’t cross over into Mundus - that was Ghost (who has since corrected himself).


@Alex

Honestly, I think that’s the actual answer.

They came up with Jyggalag, wrote in this big reveal/twist regarding Sheogorath’s identity and the Hero of Kvatch’s fate, and ultimately set up some seemingly significant consequences…and then said “nah, let’s have TESV just be about dragons and ♥♥♥♥”.

If Jyggalag is waging some kind of war against the other Daedric Princes and invading their planes and trying to destroy them (albeit temporarily as Daedric Princes can just resurrect in the void) - you’d think that would be a pretty big deal.

It wouldn’t have had to have been the main story of TESV, but you’d think if that were going on it would’ve affected the interactions you have with the Daedric Princes - like their quests would’ve involved trying to get the DB to do things to combat Jyggalag’s offensive or empower them to better defend against him.

Hell, I could’ve seen you summoning Malacath during his quest and him being like “why tf are you bothering me with this trivial ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? I’m busy fighting off Jyggalag ffs! Go kill a giant or something and stop being a ♥♥♥♥♥.”

最後修改者:Fear2288; 2024 年 8 月 25 日 下午 12:44
Von Faustien 2024 年 8 月 25 日 下午 2:08 
if you like mods Vigilante has him play a major roll in the plot of the final act
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張貼日期: 2024 年 8 月 24 日 上午 9:10
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