Why I Kill both Saadia and Kematu.

[Venom Candle]

In the famous sidequest "In My Time of Need", the player is faced with a dilemma of choosing between one of two different accounts of the story involving a noblewoman on the run and a band of mercenaries tracking her down.

On the one hand is Saadia, a Redguard nobless who is on the run from her homeland for either speaking out against the Thalmor, or betraying the city of Taneth for the Thalmor.

On the other stand Kematu and his Alik'r, a band of sellswords who have either been hired by the Thalmor to track down a dissident, or have been hired by the Hammerfell nobility to locate a traitor.

Both sides present cases that have their strengths and fallbacks in terms of veritability, which is in my estimation why the only safe and sure course of action is to disregard both testimonies and presume that both parties are guilty.

Allow me to explain:

If what Saadia says about herself is true, then she is just a barmaid working at the local tavern. She might have been a noblewoman once, but as of the events of this game, her life comes down to sweeping floors and serving tables at the Bannered Mare.

If what Kematu says about himself and his Alik'r is true, then his simply the captain of a mercenary band in a world where swords-for-hire and heroes of fortune are as commonplace as dirt and water.

Ultimately, the lives of a barmaid and some mercs doesn't add up to much relevance on the grand scheme of things. The lives they lead are comparatively small, as they don't command much power or influence in any real capacity for their sudden deaths to hold much long-term bearing. In fact, the relevance of these characters disappears the moment the quest is finished, both in the game's overall story and to the player personally.

However, if one of them is lying, then the ramifications of letting a Thalmor agent live and continue to operate could be much more directly harmful to Skyrim's state of affairs. If just one of them is killed, it is a coin toss as to whether the player managed to stop a Thalmor operative, or mistakenly allowed one to slip by them.

If both of them are killed together, on the other hand, then there is no chance that the Thalmor agent, whoever they were, is able to escape and continue whatever schemes they were involved in or were planned to be involved in going forward.

Some might decry that this method is cannot be morally justified, as it involves knowingly taking the life of an innocent. On the contrary, I would assert that this action is perfectly justified from a pragmatic standpoint. Again, our choice here is between a barmaid and a mercenary, two people whose lives are quite small and of little value. With this in mind, I would say that the price of innocent blood is a fair price to pay for the assurance of stopping what could have become a bigger problem for Skyrim or Hammerfell.

And, on the off chance that both parties are lying, and the entire premise of the quest is a deception, then both deserve to die for trying to trick the player and waste their time.

[Skumboni]

I find it easier to just ignore both of them.

[Rez Elwin]

Saadia is 100% lying, Kematu might by lying too, but Saadia definitely is. She tells you that the Alik'r were hired by the Thalmor, which is absurd on several levels. The Thalmor would not only never hire humans to do anything, let alone from an enemy nation. They also have free reign to do almost anything they want. Meanwhile the Alik'r are not even allowed into the city.

The thalmor can literally capture anybody they want under suspicion of Talos Worship, baseless or not. If they really did want her dead, they could find her, take her away for worshiping Talos and then after a few rounds of torture, execute her.

The Fact that Kematu traveled so far to find one woman, and still doesn't even kill her, but intends to go all the back to Hammerfell (border crossing is illegal by the way). If that wasn't enough he doesn't attack you despite that he heavily outnumbers you when you first meet him, comes alone when you agree to trick Saadia and then pays you quite well for the assist. Saadia does too, which probably means she was a noble.

[Skumboni]

If you are going to kill both then get money from one of them first.

[Messsucher]

I sided with the mercs, they are colleagues. Of course my char is not a merc in real, just happen to do merc jobs, but the same can be said probs of the mercs. Also, if someone is so mad at the woman that sends mercs after her, then the woman probs has done something very bad and deserve to get what is coming at her, especially if she can't avoid it.

Edit: This happened very early game for me. After the main quest things could had been different. Not really my business at all but probs would had helped the woman stay on the run. If she was a spy she would be pretty worthless spy and fearing spies to the point they are hunted down is like witch hunts of middle ages, stupid, and full of paranoia. If she is a spy I don't care until proven to really be such. Just because someone say so does not make it so.

[Rez Elwin]

Originally posted by Skumboni:

If you are going to kill both then get money from one of them first.

If you're going to kill both of them get money from both of them. You can receive both rewards and then some if you do it in a specific way. You normally get 500 gold, but you can actually walk away with 1290 gold.

You let Kematu Paralyze her, then talk to him for the 500 gold reward, then Kill him and loot his body for another 200 gold. Once Saadia recovers she will be hostile, but if you use calm then talk to her she will also reward you another 500 gold. Then when she become hostile once again, kill her. You will get an inheritance letter from her by courier for 100 gold, minus a 10% tax for 90.

1290 gold, a 1190 gold profit if you paid that prisoners fee, not including and loot you may have acquired.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by Rez Elwin:

Saadia is 100% lying, Kematu might by lying too, but Saadia definitely is

Kematu is too, both are lying, ignore the quest.

[Alex]

The whole quest makes absolutely no sense. The quest was supposed to be mysterious, but since Bethesda couldn't even be bothered to uphold the timeline, the setting doesn't add up.

The "selling out of a city" the Alik'r refer to may only have happened around 20 years ago, when Hammerfell pushed out the Thalmor after a long and bloody war. Yet, the quest is written like it's a recent event. Whoever wrote it simply forgot this tiny bit of lore. Whoops?

Therefore:
1. Bethesda became crap at writing.
2. Don't bother to look for a deeper meaning where the authors didn't even bother with matters of consistency.
3. Personally, I simply assume that Saadia indeed spoke out against a growing Thalmor influence "right now", and the Thalmor hired some bandits to off her. Probably through a rival clan/house/faction/etc, and that's why she had to flee. The whole story Kematu invented is utter BS, but what do you expect from a bandit with camel dung for brains? Therefore, I kill him for assuming that I'm stupid enough to fall for that.

[Death Approaches]

seriously, you put more effort into your post than they put into the quest script. :-)

you do understand this is a bethesda game, right? there is no right answer. it's not supposed to be something you can solve. you pick a choice and run with it. who started the great war with nukes wiping out the planet in oct 2077, china? america? Who's on the side of good, stormcloaks or imperials?

if you're the kind that need definitive answers, pick a different game company. the only rule here is kill the thing trying to kill you first. Alex's #2 is dead on - don't read much past anything, because when you do, you'll find gaps in timelines in lore, opposing/conflicting data, even names being different, because they couldn't bring themselves to bother enough to care for 5 freakin' minutes.

I side with her, simply because she's boring and easy to trap, but taking out those curved sword weirdos at lvl 3 is quite a challenge! That's the level of thought required, nothing more, "are you having fun?"

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

Originally posted by Rez Elwin:

Saadia is 100% lying, Kematu might by lying too, but Saadia definitely is

Kematu is too, both are lying, ignore the quest.

No he isn't, Saadia's urn appearing in the Hall of the Dead can be explained both by game mechanic as well as in universe traditions.

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by Alex:

The whole quest makes absolutely no sense. The quest was supposed to be mysterious, but since Bethesda couldn't even be bothered to uphold the timeline, the setting doesn't add up.

The "selling out of a city" the Alik'r refer to may only have happened around 20 years ago, when Hammerfell pushed out the Thalmor after a long and bloody war. Yet, the quest is written like it's a recent event. Whoever wrote it simply forgot this tiny bit of lore. Whoops?

Therefore:
1. Bethesda became crap at writing.
2. Don't bother to look for a deeper meaning where the authors didn't even bother with matters of consistency.
3. Personally, I simply assume that Saadia indeed spoke out against a growing Thalmor influence "right now", and the Thalmor hired some bandits to off her. Probably through a rival clan/house/faction/etc, and that's why she had to flee. The whole story Kematu invented is utter BS, but what do you expect from a bandit with camel dung for brains? Therefore, I kill him for assuming that I'm stupid enough to fall for that.

The entire game is written as if the Great War happened five or maybe ten years ago as opposed to an entire generation prior.

[Alex]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

No he isn't, Saadia's urn appearing in the Hall of the Dead can be explained both by game mechanic as well as in universe traditions.

No, he is lying, since the events he refers to happened 20 years ago. This particular quest is my number 2 on the "stupidest piece of BS" ranking, where "Blood on the Ice" gets it well-deserved first place.

[Alex]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

The entire game is written as if the Great War happened five or maybe ten years ago as opposed to an entire generation prior.

No, most other instances are actually consistent. For example, the ages of Ulfric Stormcloak, Brunwulf Free-Winter and the Emperor Titus Mede II do add up.

[Messsucher]

Originally posted by Alex:

Originally posted by fauxpas:

No he isn't, Saadia's urn appearing in the Hall of the Dead can be explained both by game mechanic as well as in universe traditions.

No, he is lying, since the events he refers to happened 20 years ago. This particular quest is my number 2 on the "stupidest piece of BS" ranking, where "Blood on the Ice" gets it well-deserved first place.

Lol I am stuck in that quest. Want to get it done before moving to Solstenheim.

[Alex]

Originally posted by Messsucher:

Lol I am stuck in that quest. Want to get it done before moving to Solstenheim.

Either install this mod:
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/6126
(Don't forget the unofficial patch as well).

Or just ignore the quest altogether, not only is it stupid, but also utterly bugged.

If you're stuck in it, finish it with console commands:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Blood_on_the_Ice#Bugs

[Messsucher]

Originally posted by Alex:

Originally posted by Messsucher:

Lol I am stuck in that quest. Want to get it done before moving to Solstenheim.

Either install this mod:
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/6126
(Don't forget the unofficial patch as well).

Or just ignore the quest altogether, not only is it stupid, but also utterly bugged.

If you're stuck in it, finish it with console commands:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Blood_on_the_Ice#Bugs

I hope it is not bugged. So far no quests bugged. I am stuck in a way that I haven't found the woman after investigating the mansion. Will probs have to check out UESP for her schedule, that could be the same as asking people around about her whereabouts. But thanks of the help.