Changing my mind about the Stormcloaks.

[deuceyd]

I've always sided with the empire in all my playthroughs (except for 1 time just to experience the other side) and I gotta say, I've completely changed my mind. They are the gigachads of Skyrim through and through. The biggest arguments I've seen against them is that they are 1. racist and 2. have less of a chance of winning against the thalmor. I use to think this way as well but since then I've realized that racism exists practically everywhere in TES universe and also, if I side with the stormcloaks and canonically lead them to victory and the thalmor invade Skyrim I could just kill all of them.

[Alex]

Oooh, another one of those topics, dis' gon' be gud'. Popcorn for ten septims the bucket!

Originally posted by deuceyd:

canonically

If you mean the next game, they'll simply wash it all down the drain, and pretend that it wasn't important at all. Like they did with Nerevarine's achievements in Morrowind, or the Hero of Kvatch's contribution in Oblivion.

[deuceyd]

Originally posted by Alex:

Oooh, another one of those topics, dis' gon' be gud'. Popcorn for ten septims the bucket!

Originally posted by deuceyd:

canonically

If you mean the next game, they'll simply wash it all down the drain, and pretend that it wasn't important at all. Like they did with Nerevarine's achievements in Morrowind, or the Hero of Kvatch's contribution in Oblivion.

this is purely a what if scenario. I mean the hero of kvatch still did all the things he did in the story canonically like close the gates of oblivion and so on

[Alex]

Originally posted by deuceyd:

this is purely a what if scenario. I mean the hero of kvatch still did all the things he did in the story canonically like close the gates of oblivion and so on

But is it mentioned anywhere, except for a few books? Well, okay, there are a few references in ol' Sheo's ramblings, too. What I mean is that the Hero's deeds were basically forgotten. Mostly because integrating all the possible combinations, like race, which guilds they joined, how they behaved, etc., would require good writing. Same goes for the Nerevarine, he "went to Akavir" and was basically wiped from the lore.

I think that the most logical conclusion for the events in the game would be for the Dragonborn to found a new Empire and repel the Thalmor. This could tie up all the loose ends, especially which side we joined in the Civil War. But since I saw what they did with the lore in the last two games, I'm not too optimistic about the next one.

[deuceyd]

We are getting off topic here lets keep it to Stormcloaks vs Imperials

[Yellowbeard]

https://i.imgflip.com/4jzf9y.jpg

[FauxFurry]

I always put it into the category of 'safer bet with the devil that you know' versus 'uncertain rebel vision of liberation'. Everything else comes from people being unable to put themselves in anyone else's position or acknowledging the mindsets of people who have lived through (or even ones who are currently living through) similar circumstances.

The Stormcloaks taking in refugees puts them ahead of many Earth factions staging a rebellion. Most of them eject anyone who does not advance their cause in some way.

[Alex]

You know, this topic was discussed so often, that I doubt that we'll come up with any new insights.

Originally posted by deuceyd:

We are getting off topic here lets keep it to Stormcloaks vs Imperials

Okay. You did say "I'll lead the Stormcloaks to victory agains the Thalmor" and I'll say that this is only possible by restoring the Empire with the Dragonborn founding a new dynasty.

[Madao]

another one of those. I swear the next n'wah to open such a topic should get a kick to the head.

in regards to the game: it doesn't matter. whether the Empire or Stormcloaks win makes almost no difference in the game world
in regards to the lore: everything that happened is gonna be sweeped under the rug just like with Morrowind or Oblivion.

personally, I side with the empire because THEIR patrols don't randomly attack me like bandits.

[deuceyd]

Originally posted by Madao:

another one of those. I swear the next n'wah to open such a topic should get a kick to the head.

in regards to the game: it doesn't matter. whether the Empire or Stormcloaks win makes almost no difference in the game world
in regards to the lore: everything that happened is gonna be sweeped under the rug just like with Morrowind or Oblivion.

personally, I side with the empire because THEIR patrols don't randomly attack me like bandits.

never had stormcloaks randomly attack me

[deuceyd]

Originally posted by FauxFurry:

I always put it into the category of 'safer bet with the devil that you know' versus 'uncertain rebel vision of liberation'. Everything else comes from people being unable to put themselves in anyone else's position or acknowledging the mindsets of people who have lived through (or even ones who are currently living through) similar circumstances.

The Stormcloaks taking in refugees puts them ahead of many Earth factions staging a rebellion. Most of them eject anyone who does not advance their cause in some way.

Amen

[theo]

Originally posted by deuceyd:

if I side with the stormcloaks and canonically lead them to victory and the thalmor invade Skyrim I could just kill all of them.

Then what's the point in being someone's ♥♥♥♥♥ to begin with

[theo]

Originally posted by FauxFurry:

I always put it into the category of 'safer bet with the devil that you know' versus 'uncertain rebel vision of liberation'.

And latter never did any good.
Empire then

[Final Freefall]

Alright, getting in there:

The Dunmer- and -specifically- the Grey Quarter Dunmer are (were) slave-trading racists. (house Dres) The woman that idiot Rolf* is arguing with at the start is directly responsible for both the poor treatment of the Argonians, and that one Nord family's views on them (steal her book).
On the other hand, Altmer- the people Stormcloaks are actually fighting are welcomed and liked. Nurellion goes off using "the eight" a couple times and the Stormcloaks still recommend his shop.
Deleted the rest as it was getting ranty, but the long-and-short-of-it is this is a fantasy game and applying real-world political parallels to it is silly.

...But also ♥♥♥♥ the imperials. Talos himself said the empire was over and a bunch of faithless bureaucrats willing to betray their (manifesting) god for money (Jarl bribes, etc. "We'll fight back tomorrow**", don't get me started on Party Jarl) deserve every bad thing that happens to them.

*The nord who everyone insists is the "Stormcloak viewpoint character" despite not being allowed into the army that his brother Galmar directly commands.

**Hammerfell fought back and won

[deuceyd]

Originally posted by FinalFreefall:

Alright, getting in there:

The Dunmer- and -specifically- the Grey Quarter Dunmer are (were) slave-trading racists. (house Dres) The woman that idiot Rolf* is arguing with at the start is directly responsible for both the poor treatment of the Argonians, and that one Nord family's views on them (steal her book).
On the other hand, Altmer- the people Stormcloaks are actually fighting are welcomed and liked. Nurellion goes off using "the eight" a couple times and the Stormcloaks still recommend his shop.
Deleted the rest as it was getting ranty, but the long-and-short-of-it is this is a fantasy game and applying real-world political parallels to it is silly.

...But also ♥♥♥♥ the imperials. Talos himself said the empire was over and a bunch of faithless bureaucrats willing to betray their (manifesting) god for money (Jarl bribes, etc. "We'll fight back tomorrow**", don't get me started on Party Jarl) deserve every bad thing that happens to them.

*The nord who everyone insists is the "Stormcloak viewpoint character" despite not being allowed into the army that his brother Galmar directly commands.

**Hammerfell fought back and won

Finally something of substance thank you. And no I don't intend or want anyone making any real life political parallels in here lets keep it strictly TES related

[deuceyd]

Originally posted by theo:

Originally posted by deuceyd:

if I side with the stormcloaks and canonically lead them to victory and the thalmor invade Skyrim I could just kill all of them.

Then what's the point in being someone's ♥♥♥♥♥ to begin with

It's not being anyones ♥♥♥♥♥ its fighting for whichever leader you believe in and I think ulfric is the better man