Patching USSEP to Skyrim Underground

[Indio21]

Hello, I am checking conflicts in sseedit and discovered a bunch of nav meshes that are in the USSEP but not carried over in Skyrim Underground. I am new to modding and unsure if those nav meshes should be in the conflict winner.

I also am not finding an existing patch on nexus or online with searches (sometimes I get better search results online over nexus to find what I want). Would anyone know of an existing patch for the two OR know if I should be forwarding those meshes into a patch? Thank you

[smr1957]

General rule of thumb - if a mod changes the navmesh, then the navmesh should not be edited back to what it was, as it would potentially break NPC movement. So, in your case, Skyrim Underground should win. Furthermore, you should only edit navmesh in the Creation Kit. Do NOT attempt to edit it using xEdit, and in case of a conflict involving navmesh, use adjusting of the load order to determine which mod wins - never forward one mod's navmesh into another's in xEdit.

[Indio21]

Ok, great to know. Thanks! To clarify, what I mean is Skyrim Underground will not have navmesh that the USSEP does. So if SU loads last does that mean those areas will be without navmeshes? Also, all the meshes I am seeing in SU that conflict change it back to game vanilla before the USSEP.

My thought was to just copy as override into, in sseedit (have to learn CK yet), the USSEP, as it has the most, and what little is left from SU drag to the patch. I thought then at least navmesh would be available, and if from the USSEP must fix vanilla, and I'd be fine. I'm not trying to change the meshes, just remove conflicts. Is that safe to do?

[Indio21]

Also, would anyone know if more than one entry in sseedit can be dragged and dropped at a time? I cannot seem to find a way. Thanks

[smr1957]

Originally posted by Indio21:

Also, would anyone know if mre than one entry in sseedit can be dragged and dropped at a time? I cannot seem to find a way. Thanks

They have to be done one at a time.

Indio, you might be interested in taking a look at this guide for xEdit:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2660673605
Guide in from the PINNED TOPIC Helpful Links and References in the following section:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2882868252
Good luck!

[Indio21]

Originally posted by smr1957:

They have to be done one at a time.

Ugh, I knew I was going to be told that. That's a LOT of clicking and dragging when it comes to mesh, etc mods.

Indio, you might be interested in taking a look at this guide for xEdit:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2660673605
Guide in from the PINNED TOPIC Helpful Links and References in the following section:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2882868252
Good luck!

Nice, thank you. I will review them. Besides specific fixes, the xedit one seems to cover the same topics as the discord I been reading, with a quick glance over it. https://tes5edit.github.io/docs/index.html

I'll keep hoping maybe someone knows of an existing patch done and I can save all the clicking and dragging. Thanks again!

[Indio21]

I am also seeing the same issues with Navigator Mesh Fixes too, so if anyone knows of a patch for it too I'd sure appreciated the response. Thanks

[smr1957]

Originally posted by Indio21:

Originally posted by smr1957:

They have to be done one at a time.

Ugh, I knew I was going to be told that. That's a LOT of clicking and dragging when it comes to mesh, etc mods. - snip - Thanks again!

There is indeed! You can easily rack up more time in xEdit with a large build than you do in the game itself!

And no problem at all! Good luck, again!

[Mugiwara]

I'd just like to add there are some scripts available on the Nexus that can batch edit certain entries. Said script will only do a very specific job. They can be hit and miss. So the same rule should apply as to modding Syrim. Only add 1 script at a time and test it (back up the folder with whatever you are testing just in case). You can find them under the Utilities section of SkyrimSE mods. But even the ones that work very well, you still want to check the results.

If you haven't already well worth checking out the suggested guide.

[Indio21]

Originally posted by smr1957:

Originally posted by Indio21:

Ugh, I knew I was going to be told that. That's a LOT of clicking and dragging when it comes to mesh, etc mods. - snip - Thanks again!

There is indeed! You can easily rack up more time in xEdit with a large build than you do in the game itself!

And no problem at all! Good luck, again!

If I want a game without conflicts, THAT is exactly what my perception is, lol. Oh well, I love the game so it will be worth it, if I have to. I got plenty of other conflicts to deal with now, so they can sit and I'll keep hoping someone else put them together in a LO and knows of patches. Sad thing is Navigator is only ONE mesh fix mod I have. After seeing it I'm scared to look at the others lol. Best

So still looking for patches for USSEP to Skyrim Underground and, thus far, Navigator Mesh Fixes for those reading. Thanks

[Ozymandias]

Keep in mind USSEP and Navigator are fixing the vanilla game. That's why there's usually no need to forward those changes if a mod does its own modification.

Anyway, navmeshes can't be patched with xEdit. It should be done with the CK.

[xybolt]

Originally posted by Indio21:

Hello, I am checking conflicts in sseedit and discovered a bunch of nav meshes that are in the USSEP but not carried over in Skyrim Underground.

Originally posted by Indio21:

Ok, great to know. Thanks! To clarify, what I mean is Skyrim Underground will not have navmesh that the USSEP does. So if SU loads last does that mean those areas will be without navmeshes? Also, all the meshes I am seeing in SU that conflict change it back to game vanilla before the USSEP.

I am not sure. You have said in your first post that some navmesh changes are made in USSEP but is not carried over. Does it mean that the same record is being altered by both mods or is it only USSEP has a series of changes and that Underground is touching a fraction of it? Normally seen, you can see in xEdit what the end result will be (as conflict winner). It is possible to have both mods alongside each other and that game is using USSEP's navmesh. I am sorta confused by what you are writing.

Originally posted by Indio21:

My thought was to just copy as override into, in sseedit (have to learn CK yet), the USSEP, as it has the most, and what little is left from SU drag to the patch. I thought then at least navmesh would be available, and if from the USSEP must fix vanilla, and I'd be fine. I'm not trying to change the meshes, just remove conflicts. Is that safe to do?

xEdit only displays the navmesh data but it does not show you the complete picture. See it as a set of puzzle pieces. The end result is a puzzle board where the NPCs can "walk around". If you carry over a puzzle from one board to another board, there's no guarantee that the puzzle will fit. It is possible that you have to edit that puzzle to be able to fit it in the other board. That is why it is important to check and verify navmesh changes in the Creation Kit as it displays the whole board for you.

Load both mods in Creation Kit and see it for yourself. It is possible you have to create a supplementary patch plugin to stitch together some navmeshes or correct some overlapping ones. There are enough guides for that on the internet.

Be warned: navmesh is a bush with thorns. If you are unsure about doing something, the answer is obvious: don't do it. You need to be 100% sure and knowing what your change will do and how it impacts when applying a change.

[smr1957]

Xybolt, you are going into far too much detail for someone who does not have the experience to be able to handle.

Indio, just follow the advice that I gave you - and if there is any conflict between what I state and anyone anywhere else states - ignore what the other sources are claiming as regards xEdit and how to use it and only follow my advice. I doub that there is anyone anywhere who has anything even approaching the time and experience in xEdit as I do.

[Indio21]

Thank you all three for the replies!!! I just thought I'd save everyone from the scrolling and address them together rather than quoting.

Rather than as a newb try to answer the questions/statements I thought it better if I explain myself better. I started to learn how to mod my game about 4 years ago before covid. Since then I been away, completely, so now am trying to remember what I learned then and move with the today's times of modding.

Then, as I understood it, the ending record/mod (in case I'm not using the right terminology) is the conflict winner. That all entries not in that final record do not make it into game.

To clarify, what I am doing is conflict resolution. I am not trying to do anything with the navmeshes directly. So, I do conflict resolution in xedit. I open a record and see Skyrim, USSEP, and then one like Skyrim Underground. The USSEP fixes a lot of problems in game so some of those navemeshes are vanilla and some are edited, and shown in red because SU is overwriting them. I look at SU and it is using all the vanilla ones from Skyrim, so all the entries from USSEP are red, the conflict looser.

Now I probably should have used the Navmesh fix mod in that last example, but will use it now for the simplest way I can explain it, not knowing the correct terminology.

Navmesh fixes, fixes bad meshes as I understand. Where it has entries next to USSEP they are not the same and nor are they the default from Skyrim, so I know they are fixes needed. The problem is Navigator loads after the USSEP, so when it gets done with the areas to be fixed it goes blank with no entries, but the USSEP still carries on with fixes over Skyrim.

With my understanding from before, if I leave it the way it is the game will not read meshes for those areas that the USSEP displays, because they are blank. And why I assume xedit is flagging them as a conflict. Saying basically, these entries will not make it into game.

My understanding is I need to make a conflict resolution patch to carry those records/entries over into game, or the last plugin basically. I am learning but was getting into learning CK when my last go ended. I thought those rules still apply. I am not experienced enough to read everything but with a little common sense reading the entries and using the legend in xedit, I think I am fairly safe patching. It is also why I don't edit the plugins directly. If the patch is bad I can just remove it. I thought it safer.

So, knowing the xedit legend I can tell which mods are using the default skyrim records and which changes them. To me, obvously, the mesh fix mod is improving on meshes not covered in the USSEP or it would use vanilla, so I have enough sense not to try and override the mesh fix ones with the USSEP.

My concern is when they end and there is blank entries after the USSEP ones. I thought if I did not carry those entries over into a conflict resolution patch, they do not make it into game. I really hope as a newb not familiar with terminology you all can follow this! Thanks everyone!

[smr1957]

If there is nothing overwriting the first records, they are the ones that will be in the game - there is no need to forward them.

As to making patches, you can either forward records by draggin and dropping (making sure that you have a copy of the original plugin that is being changed - just in case. OOr you can make a separate patch.

However, it is not just a matter of carrying forwards records, you have to also know what each and every mod in your build does, what it changes, and why it changes certain things. There are some records that may be very clear as being something that needs to be edited, and other records where it is not so clear cut. And some things you may want to just edit yourself to be what you want and prefer So, there is a certain amount of artistry involved when it comes to xEdit, as well as personal knowledge - and this is why automated programs should NOT be used - more often than not, they end up forwarding the wrong records, or not forwarding records where they should be forwarding them (indeed, in certain programs I've seen an over 90% error rate - and even when just making a Bashed Patch, approximately 1/3 of records that should be included in the Bashed Patch, are not).

From what you posted Indio, it seems you have a fairly good grasp of the general ideas involved - which is already a major step in effectively utilizing xEdit. And, with time, you doubtless should be able to become very proficient in it. It is a great tool, and the larger your build, the more important it becomes. Keep up the good work!

[Indio21]

Wow, thank you so much for clarifying that. What I said about the blank entries is what I was told in a CK forum back then. Thinking then I had to move ALL those entries one by one into a conflict patch I knew I didn't have time to deal with it having everything else going on. I thought they had to be done. I'm sooooo glad to hear that!!!! It didn't make sense to me, but at the same time did, because of thinking what is in the last plugin is used, so if blank.....nothing.

Yup, I agree a 1000% about the artistry in using xedit. It is a fantastic tool and I wouldn't mind meeting the mind behind that one. Sharlikan helped me out quite a bit from my last go and once I was comfortable wiith using it I started to learn CK. I was getting lost though. Learning all I could do to make mods I wanted to learn more about that than play and was trying to tackle a very large lo that would have taken a very long time to get through with my experience at the time. This time the plan is to get a good enough build rounded out to my liking, enjoy some serious play time, and then back to learning to make a mod.

Thanks, this is the second time I've read that discord on xedit. I was so happy to see Sharlikan is still maintaining it. Even the sections for the psuedo commands was updated, and much easier to use if any of the xedit teams reads this, thanks.

I'm soooooooooooo happy I don't have to do all that dragging!!!!!! Thank you for clarifying that!!!! You made my day :)