Hot Take: Skyrim is better without Alchemy

[nonameyet]

I have played this game waaay too much and hardly ever got to the endgame. But so many times I fell into a strategically-optimal but boring grinding loop of buying ingredients, making potions for money, using perks on crafting, and eventually looping Alchemy-Enchanting-Smithing to make OP items that make the game's challenge meaningless.

So how did I fnally get to the endgame and play through fun-ly and honestly? I did not craft my own potions except for Cure Disease. I did not grind enchanting to 100 until around lvl 40 and I made a point of not consciously grinding up crafting skills. My character was plenty powerful in improved heavy armor swingng 1hand and slinging destruction spell. They also didn't hit the armor cap too quickly, so the switch to Ebony had meaningful armor increase. I felt confident enough to marry and finish the game, accept title of Dovahkiin.

tl;dr if you are a slave to power-crafting only use 2/3 crafting skills and your game will feel better.

[wicked lester]

Correction: Skyrim is better without EXPLOITING alchemy, as you have discovered. Unless you have made the difficulty superhigh, Legendary or through mods, the game does not require grinding or exploiting crafting at all.

[Anvos]

Honestly its more that alchemy shows more than others how arbitrary the pricing system for many things is, and they forgot to code it so that making poisonous potions and restorative poisons decreases the value of the end result.

Not using crafting also just makes the game more monotonous. Let alone mage and mage-hybrid builds really need the decrease cast cost enchantments to be viable, with how mana expensive higher tier spells are.

Not to mention being stuck with RNG for high tier armors sucks.

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Plus if you play survival crafting gives the game a more natural feel where you adventure then use the things you found on your adventure back at town to make money.

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Now not doing the exploit loop itself I agree with.

[John]

To be fair, you don't need any crafting at all and can still hit the most important defensive break points and still deal high damage that Legendary has become meaningless.

Armor:
Full Daedric (heavy armor dragon priest masks work as well)
lvl 100 heavy armor
5 perks for +100% armor
25% boost for full heavy armor
25% boost for matching set
10% boost from Black Book: Sallow Regents
Lord Stone +50 armor
25 invisible armor for each piece of armor (shield can be applied as well = +100
Total of above 667 armor

Magic defense:
-Breton 25%
-Lord Stone 25%
-Mara 15%
-Alteration 2/3 perk points for 20%
-Total of 85%

Damage:
-Become a vampire, take necromage as one of the first perks.
-Daedric Gauntlets of Peerless Wielding for +40% 1 handed.
-Dual wield perks, 1,35 atk speed x 1,25 from necromage = 1,69
-Charged dual attacks speed based on offhand
-off hand dagger, 1,4 x 1,69 = 2,36,
-1 handed lvl 100
-5 perks for +100% damage
-dual attack charge attacks deal 50% extra damage for total of 100%
-Standing still charge attacks deal 25% extra damage
-1 charge attack = about 200 base at that point
-charge attacks x double damage = 400
-+25% about 500
-2 dual wield charge attacks per second = about 1000 dps, can still use a potion for +50% and other pieces of gear with +40% 1 handed damage
-Vegetable Soup for unlimited charge attacks.

Once you have the numbers, crafting almost seems meaningless, just to make the game even easier than it is. It can be useful for certain builds, destruction magic without 100% reduction is useless, sword & shield without smithing is garbage, that kinda stuff. That's why i always give myself restriction cause i always try to become as powerful as possible. This way however i at least do that within the possibilities of those restrictions.

[RegionsRules]

lol is the only correct response

[worm_master]

I have no armour, I haz maxed Enchanting, Alchemy, Conjuration, Alteration and Destruction, along with, Pick Pocket and Sneak, though enchanting, I have unlimited mana. Currently strolling on Legendary, killing with nothing but Conjuration.

If I want I switch to dagger it do's 174 Forged damage, use a fortify 1 handed, an i do over 200 dam, with 1 dagger, I am so stealthy, when indoors, i can activate a finisher from the front.

Some times i want to keep my distance, so i equip my gloves, to improve Archery, neck a fortify archery, add toxin's/poisons, and conjure Bound Bow, not much stands up to me.

[Docsprock]

What? There's alchemy in this game?

[alexander_dougherty]

I have always used Alchemy.
But I've never overused it, or used the alchemy-enchantment loop (mainly because the potion usually wore off before I did the enchantments (dual enchants doubles the time to set it up).....

But for health/magicka potions, and cure potions and a few others, it's useful.....
but the only skill I max out is smithing.

[worm_master]

Originally posted by Docsprock:

What? There's alchemy in this game?

Yes an powerful beyound power, i have a posion, that paralyses for 17 secs, I think that should be enough time for any 1 to take out a NPC, my invis potions last over 1 minute.

It takes quite a while to improve Alchamy, some potions improve it quicker then others, but you still gotta either A.Buy the ingredients or B. Spend hours and hours gathering.

Which is why the CC mod Goldenhills is such a must, it enables you to grow ingredients in situ, and by waiting 3 in game days, they reflower, so thays 1 way to cut down the grinding.

[dvdbillen]

I discovered much the same thing and made a personal rule. My character is fundamentally a warrior, thief/assassin, or mage:

I can only do smithing if a warrior.

I can only do enchanting if a mage.

I can only do alchemy if a thief.

Leveling up more than one of those will just about end the game.

[worm_master]

@Dvd, lol i'm all 3, an rocking the game the fact i made it organically, beats the ease of which I win on Legendary.

[SpeedFreak1972]

The biggest problem is people misuse crafting loops to boost and at a certain point they complain the game is to easy .....

[Deadzoneer]

I disagree, as it's another tool to diversify your gameplay with. However, I do put up limitations on myself when playing with crafting skills.

At most i use the following set up:
Alchemy (fortify enchant) => enchant 1 necklace with fortify alchemy/smithing and then craft/temper my gear.
For enchanting my limitations are that I can't double on enchants. So if i equip a set, I can only have 1 bonus to fortify onehanded for example. Combined with Summermyst, it forces me to pick enchants i wouldn't normally pick.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by Deadzoneer:

For enchanting my limitations are that I can't double on enchants. So if i equip a set, I can only have 1 bonus to fortify onehanded for example. Combined with Summermyst, it forces me to pick enchants i wouldn't normally pick.

I have never formalised that one, but I don't have two sets with the same enchantments, but only because I diversify.

[sdack]

We used to call it "mental masturbation" - the act of repeating a simple action for a dose of dopamine, the "success"-hormone. It is an easy mistake to make, but hard to let go once the brain has gotten used to frequent doses of it. Better avoid it, put in the effort to only reward hard work, and live happily ever after.

Body Alchemy 101.

[Hystorm]

Heh, for the record....I've never once created any potions in Skyrim...ever. Purchased at release in 2011. Same in BG3, not once have I crafted or created any potions.
Enchanting on the other hand....did that the most as one can create MUCH stronger armor and weapons that ANY quest in the game can provide...