Dead Body Hitbox

[Ihateeverybody]

This is such an annoying bug. Is there anything that can be done?

This is when a hostile NPC is standing on a dead body (Usually Biped, NPC) and they cannot take damage because the hitbox of the already dead NPC is covering them and preventing you from hitting them with Melee attacks.

To top it off they REFUSE to move off the body or be moved (they will allways move back.

Its basicly the AI Exploiting the game mechanics (AND I #($*ING KNOW, IT DOES IT ON PURPOSE).

[Skumboni]

Pain is mandatory - Suffering is optional.

[Immortalis]

Take two steps back, the enemy follows you, you hit the enemy. There, problem solved (and quite realistically too since a warrior wouldn't just stand in place and swing his weapon around).

And no, the AI isn't exploiting any such game mechanics, it simply isn't smart enough to do that.

[Ihateeverybody]

Yeah they don't always follow. I specifically noted they could not be moved and they mostly move back. Hence my frustration with the entire process.

"And no, the AI isn't exploiting any such game mechanics, it simply isn't smart enough to do that." - That is exactly what an exploiting AI's internet plant would say.

[supernova backshots]

I dug into this a long time ago.

This was originally about TF2 Having absolute bonkers melee hitreg.
And I found out that Source used VPhysics, which is modified from Havok's physics engine.

Digging deeper a day later because I hit a Whiterun Guard behind a Bandit when that Bandit was right in front of me, The Creation engine uses Havok Behavior Middleware, while Source used Havoc middleware.

Essentially, BOTH SKYRIM AND TF2'S MELEE HITREG ARE BANANAS THANKS TO HAVOK

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

Use the mod Precision, adds accurate path traced hitboxes instead of vanilla jank. Should fix your problem.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/72347

[Ihateeverybody]

Originally posted by Bad Distraction Carnifex:

Use the mod Precision, adds accurate path traced hitboxes instead of vanilla jank. Should fix your problem.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/72347

Thanks.

Not sure why MCM Helper is listed as a requirement (it crashes my existing game, but new game doesn't have that issue (or appearntly a MCM Helper menu) I just loaded without it)

Preliminary testing does show it as mostly eliminating the issue. Though I saw strange behvour both in NPCs attacks and Mine that should have hit but didn't; its very intermittant where as the original problem was mostly there.

Just a rough guestimate based on 2 seperate test cycles (spawning Bandits, killing them until they covered the floor and couldn't be avoided) I would say rate of occurance is reduced from 90% to 10% which is great in my book.

So appreciate it.

[Ihateeverybody]

Follow up.

So after extensive testing in the Field I am going to have to say No to Precision. It does solve the standing on hitbox problem but in general everyday use it is just bad bad bad. Testing out and about in normal game play shows its flaws vividly.

Even in wide open places where there is no doubt I hit the enemy, it says I didn't. From Wolves to Draugr I find a majority of my attacks don't land (I have even turned on god mode and gotten right up on them so there would be no doubt. 1Handed, 2 Handed, Duel Wielding, its the same. Blocking (especially with Shields) seem to be much improved but combat itself has not been.

It almost feels like Morrowind (and to a greater degree Daggerfall's) combat where it was all hit roll dependant. There is a reason I haven't played DnD in 30 years. Arguing with Dungeon Masters is tiring.

Going to have to revert.

Thanks for the Suggestion though.

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

Originally posted by Ihateeverybody:

Originally posted by Bad Distraction Carnifex:

Use the mod Precision, adds accurate path traced hitboxes instead of vanilla jank. Should fix your problem.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/72347

Thanks.

Not sure why MCM Helper is listed as a requirement (it crashes my existing game, but new game doesn't have that issue (or appearntly a MCM Helper menu) I just loaded without it)

Preliminary testing does show it as mostly eliminating the issue. Though I saw strange behvour both in NPCs attacks and Mine that should have hit but didn't; its very intermittant where as the original problem was mostly there.

Just a rough guestimate based on 2 seperate test cycles (spawning Bandits, killing them until they covered the floor and couldn't be avoided) I would say rate of occurance is reduced from 90% to 10% which is great in my book.

So appreciate it.

If MCM Helper is crashing your game it's because you're using the wrong version of it for your Skyrim.

So if you're usng 1.5.97 DO NOT USE THE ARCHIVED VERSION. Use the backport version instead. If you're using 1.6.XX then make sure you're using the AE version.

That's probably going to solve your problem. Also, most mods don't need MCM Helper to function but you're basically screwed when it comes to adjusting settings without it.

Tried telling people this on their mod page in civil terms with one comment and they blocked me. That mod author has an ego problem. Mini rant about a 'bad' mod author over lol.

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

Originally posted by Ihateeverybody:

Follow up.

So after extensive testing in the Field I am going to have to say No to Precision. It does solve the standing on hitbox problem but in general everyday use it is just bad bad bad. Testing out and about in normal game play shows its flaws vividly.

Even in wide open places where there is no doubt I hit the enemy, it says I didn't. From Wolves to Draugr I find a majority of my attacks don't land (I have even turned on god mode and gotten right up on them so there would be no doubt. 1Handed, 2 Handed, Duel Wielding, its the same. Blocking (especially with Shields) seem to be much improved but combat itself has not been.

It almost feels like Morrowind (and to a greater degree Daggerfall's) combat where it was all hit roll dependant. There is a reason I haven't played DnD in 30 years. Arguing with Dungeon Masters is tiring.

Going to have to revert.

Thanks for the Suggestion though.

Go into the MCM menu, adjust weapon reach length manually. Problem solved. This is an issue specifically with smaller weapons like daggers.

[Ihateeverybody]

I will give it another try later, with your suggestions. Most of my testing was done with Sand Scorpion mod Sword (original, not the most current, don't like the new version and a Custom created set of war axes based on Solsteim's Hromonder's tomb Battleaxe Mesh.

Edit: I do use 1.5.97. I didn't use the Backport version since I never actually updated and reverted. I will try the backported though I am skeptical, sounds....anti intuitive. I do have all the other requisites includeing address library.

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

Originally posted by Ihateeverybody:

I will give it another try later, with your suggestions. Most of my testing was done with Sand Scorpion mod Sword (original, not the most current, don't like the new version and a Custom created set of war axes based on Solsteim's Hromonder's tomb Battleaxe Mesh.

Edit: I do use 1.5.97. I didn't use the Backport version since I never actually updated and reverted. I will try the backported though I am skeptical, sounds....anti intuitive. I do have all the other requisites includeing address library.

That's why I tried warning people, backport version works. Ran into this exact issue and took a day to figure out because I thought "there's no way MCM Helper is causing crashes. No way".

Basically, with precision, if you don't like something, it can be changed. It's obnoxiously customizable lol.

[Ihateeverybody]

So I have tried both Version MCM Helper 1.3 and 1.4 (Backport version) and they both crash "My" Game if installed during an active playthrough.

It works fine on a new game (at least with regard to Precision, not sure what effect it has on anything else, not even really positive what it is supposed to do.

I have a very unique setup so don't feel too bad. I took a look through the Precision stuff. I honestly feel its best if I left it at default. I don't like messing with stuff if I don't know what I am doing.

IF its indeed not applying these settings on an existing game with just the Precision.ESP selected, that could be why I am seeing issues on an existing playthrough without MCM Helper on. Not sure why they just couldn't do a SkyUI MCM but I try not to judge Mod Authors.

Oh well, Next playthrough I will take a look at it more indepth.

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

Originally posted by Ihateeverybody:

So I have tried both Version MCM Helper 1.3 and 1.4 (Backport version) and they both crash "My" Game if installed during an active playthrough.

It works fine on a new game (at least with regard to Precision, not sure what effect it has on anything else, not even really positive what it is supposed to do.

I have a very unique setup so don't feel too bad. I took a look through the Precision stuff. I honestly feel its best if I left it at default. I don't like messing with stuff if I don't know what I am doing.

IF its indeed not applying these settings on an existing game with just the Precision.ESP selected, that could be why I am seeing issues on an existing playthrough without MCM Helper on. Not sure why they just couldn't do a SkyUI MCM but I try not to judge Mod Authors.

Oh well, Next playthrough I will take a look at it more indepth.

Wait are you swapping mods mid-playthrough?

That's generally bad news :( You'll break your save with orphaned scripts and mislabeled records.

GL man!

[Ihateeverybody]

No I have a save prior to installing.

[Ihateeverybody]

Hah, So I was trying to help someone with another issue and noticed in their load order that MCM Helper was listed after Precision. In my game I had it loading just after my ESMs and Precision Loading near my bottom (after Location and game changes).

Moving MCM Helper down Under precision seems to have fixed my crash on load. Also it popped up a menu for simple degradation mod which I wasn't aware was a thing. So I can continue with this playthrough (well I was going to do that anyway) and see if Precision is good for me.