If TES6 was announced with "Souls-Like" Combat, would that keep you from buying it?

[Mathius]

I absolutely would not buy it with "Souls-Like" combat.

I don't play these games for the combat, and I don't play games in general for combat, or a need to be challenged by combat. I'm perfectly ok with the stealth archer build (or sniper build in Fallout) because it allows me to avoid most combat scenarios and continue with what I enjoy.

I enjoy these games for the exploration, the stories, the detailed world builds, the lore, etc. If I wanted to play a FPS shooter, I'd be playing CoD or whatever the currently popular game is. I don't play any of those games.

As it is, I'm not sure I'll buy it now because honestly they've waited SO long in between releases (and I have zero interest in a space/settlement game) that I'm starting to just get bored with the whole Bethesda game loop in general, i.e. explore, pick up loot, turn in quest, rinse, repeat. Plus there's all the anti-consumer trends they seem to enjoy now. But those things are a whole 'nother issue.

[theo]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Michanicks:

Yes, i didn't mention conditions that should be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ obvious. Thank you, that was my bad

Oh really. Then since we came to this level of argumentation it's obvious that more action-oriented combat with new moves shouldn't be in Skyrim. Case closed because it's obvious.
Also you can buy slaves in Morrowind lol. I prefer furry and altmer ones but I think there is a redguard or two.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Michanicks:

Yes, and also you know that difference between square and round wheels is just a personal preference and that you can compare dark souls to racism and act like it some kind of "gotcha". That's really means a lot, thank you again.

Not my fault that you don't understand the basics of logical reasoning, as well as the idea that personal preferences are personal and may differ.
There are square wheels in Minecraft, and that's by designer's preference

[Michanicks]

Oprindeligt skrevet af theo:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Michanicks:

Yes, i didn't mention conditions that should be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ obvious. Thank you, that was my bad

Oh really. Then since we came to this level of argumentation it's obvious that more action-oriented combat with new moves shouldn't be in Skyrim. Case closed because it's obvious.
Also you can buy slaves in Morrowind lol. I prefer furry and altmer ones but I think there is a redguard or two.

That's weird in this discussion about combat you mentioned unrelated ability to buy slaves twice already and shared your preference about who exactly you like to buy. I would't enjoy meeting you in real life, brrr.

[theo]

Totally related - it's a game feature and it's optional. According to you it is only supposed to enrich the game without affecting those who don't like it because they don't have to use it

[Longhaul]

This thread is going... swell.

[ĿIFE oƒ ƤIE]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Longhaul:

This thread is going... swell.

*eating popcorn*

[Michanicks]

Oprindeligt skrevet af theo:

Totally related - it's a game feature and it's optional. According to you it is only supposed to enrich the game without affecting those who don't like it because they don't have to use it

I've said nothing about should if that thing should take the place in game or not. I say that if in discussion about combat you want to bring theme of slavery so often... even just to proof that addition of features gonna ruin combat (lol what?)... i just don't know how do i describe my disgust. And i didn't ask you about your preference in slaves - you shared it by yourself, because you wanted to.

Just think about it. It goes well along your warped misconceptions. I don't want to talk with you anymore. You make me sick.

[Ghost]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Michanicks:

Oprindeligt skrevet af theo:

Totally related - it's a game feature and it's optional. According to you it is only supposed to enrich the game without affecting those who don't like it because they don't have to use it

I've said nothing about should if that thing should take the place in game or not. I say that if in discussion about combat you want to bring theme of slavery so often... even just to proof that addition of features gonna ruin combat (lol what?)... i just don't know how do i describe my disgust. And i didn't ask you about your preference in slaves - you shared it by yourself, because you wanted to.

Just think about it. It goes well along your warped misconceptions. I don't want to talk with you anymore. You make me sick.

Really don't want to get involved further in this, but to try and clear some things up - you've come across as saying 'all options are good options' to which Theo has replied 'not all options are good options, e.g. slavery would not a good option'.

[SpeedFreak1972]

Yea well don't want getting involved either really at this point that said theo could used another example to make his point.

[Michanicks]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ghost:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Michanicks:

I've said nothing about should if that thing should take the place in game or not. I say that if in discussion about combat you want to bring theme of slavery so often... even just to proof that addition of features gonna ruin combat (lol what?)... i just don't know how do i describe my disgust. And i didn't ask you about your preference in slaves - you shared it by yourself, because you wanted to.

Just think about it. It goes well along your warped misconceptions. I don't want to talk with you anymore. You make me sick.

Really don't want to get involved further in this, but to try and clear some things up - you've come across as saying 'all options are good options' to which Theo has replied 'not all options are good options, e.g. slavery would not a good option'.

Quote me on where i said all options are good. That's right, i've never said it.
I repeat this again: i espcially come up with list of features soulslikes do have including which would not harm the ability to play the game the old way. And here he comes with question a-la "but what about racism?!" - no sane mature person would even arguing on this level.

That's it. I didn't come up with "all options are good" and "just pure addition of features only makes it better, no cons", don't believe his lies.

[theo]

Your argument that optional features cannot affect the game because they're optional and can be ignored applies to any optional features.
You're trying to argue that people aren't allowed to dislike optional features because they're optional. Not because they suit gameplay or setting or aren't racist or whatever - no, just because they're optional. Therefore anything optional goes and you should accept it.

[Dopey Shepard]

Oprindeligt skrevet af A very spicy burrito:

I like how whenever someone has an opposing opinion to oneself it immediately makes them a troll.

Also to me it's hilarious that someone is complaining about a combat system they have never used before and is actually mortified at the idea of anything other than clicking mouse 1 and seeing the same two swings repeated indefinitely without any altercation in technique between weapon types.

On a side note, where the flying ♥♥♥♥ did you get the idea that Dark Souls was a button masher?


BTW I don't think that suggesting any depth to combat in a game is an attempt to propagate Michanicks' political agenda through misinformation, so you might want to look into your use of the word propaganda.

I suggest you enhance your reading skills maybe
1) The conclusion about somebody having an opposing opinion being a troll is not an imminent one, just go and sift through the last pages of the responses ever since my first post in this megathread

2) WHO said I never used a certain combat system before? Again, I played Bloodborne, more than enough to know I don't like it's combat system, and I played DS3 a little bit

3) It's actually more than 2 swings repeated, maybe learn how to count

4) There is definitely certain degree of technique applied even to Skyrim's "mouse 1" swinging. How about doing attack animation cancel when you do a swing into a power attack, or double rapid swings after executing that said power attack? You wouldn't understand anyway

5) All the games are button mashers. The only difference is that my 1st person Skyrim doesn't require me to roll to avoid a large AOE attack, I can simply block it with my shield, or actually strafe/walk diagonally backwards away from it, but in Dark Souls I evade it, and then button mash from behind. At the end of it, there's almost no difference when dealing with petty enemies. All you have in your Souls games are over-complicated Boss fights you have to analyze and die to dozens of times to get them right. Hardly a compelling argument to implement that system into a TES game

[AstroFox]

I turned Skyrim combat into souls like with 4 simple mods;

1. True Directional Movement (overall much better experience when playing 3rd person + having the ability to lock on enemies)

2. Precision (truly amazing mod which adds animation based collisions, now we're able to hit multiple enemies with single attack)

3. Valhalla Combat (overhauled stamina managment, light attacks that miss the enemy costs stamina and successful light attacks regenerate stamina, well timed blocks can stagger enemies)

4. Enhaced Enemy AI SE (overall more engaging combat, melee users are more aggersive, magic users try to keep distance)

In this configuration combat still maintains its TES identity and is playable perfectly fine both in 1st and 3rd person, this is how I imagine TES VI could look like if it was supposed to have souls like combat.

[Michanicks]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Dopey Shepard:

1) The conclusion about somebody having an opposing opinion being a troll is not an imminent one, just go and sift through the last pages of the responses ever since my first post in this megathread

You also sit in this thread and stand for your point - just like me.
And for you i wouldn't be a troll if i just would just stop stand for my point?
To stop being a troll should i just agree with you? Right? No?

Oprindeligt skrevet af Dopey Shepard:

2) WHO said I never used a certain combat system before? Again, I played Bloodborne, more than enough to know I don't like it's combat system, and I played DS3 a little bit

More than enough? No, that's LESS than enough, because Bloodborne is very different to other's FromSoftware games, as well as to soulslikes from other developers.

Bloodborne has no tanking, no viable shields, no poise, almost all off-hand weapons are exist exclusively for parrying. That's why you can't judge all soulslike by one Bloodborne, that's why you can't call that playing a single game is "more than enough" to know and judge the whole genre.
Since i've played all official FS soulslikes besides ER, i realise that games can be different in many ways while still being considered some specific genre.

Bruh, i got it, that's why you mention frame-perfect parries so often - because that's the focus of Bloodborne combat. And that's why you have misconceptions about the whole genre.

And DS3 is mix between Dark Souls and mentioned Bloodborne.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Dopey Shepard:

3) It's actually more than 2 swings repeated, maybe learn how to count

Hm, let's learn to count. And to make it simple, let's count light attacks only (because if we will count all types of attacks, DS will win by pure amount of mere attack types).
Dagger: combo of two slashes - to the left and to the right;
Sword: combo of two slashes - to the left and to the right;
Axe: combo of two slashes - to the left and to the right;
Mace: combo of two slashes - to the left and to the right;
Greatsword: combo of two slashes - to the left and to the right;
Greataxe: combo of two slashes - to the left and to the right;
Greathammer: combo of two slashes - to the left and to the right.

Do you want me to describe Dark Souls light attack combos? It's gonna be a long list, because there is more types of weapons, there is different combos depending on do you hold weapon with one hand or with two hands, and also even weapons that share single weapon class still may have different attacks.

Just to be fair, i need to mention that DeS and DS1 has the least attack variety (almost all hammer attacks are similarly looking smashes) and that almost every attack of piercing swords are animated as, well, thrust.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Dopey Shepard:

4) There is definitely certain degree of technique applied even to Skyrim's "mouse 1" swinging. How about doing attack animation cancel when you do a swing into a power attack, or double rapid swings after executing that said power attack? You wouldn't understand anyway

What exactly weapon you describing? Dragonbone longsword? Daedric dagger? Greathammers? Or just literally all the melee weapons existing in the game because there is so little difference between them?

Who do you try to impress by counting these actions? I know it's sound overly harsh and Skyrim fans may be upset because of this (i am sorry), but as an reply to this comment i just should say that they don't stand no chance in comparison to variety of Dark Souls attack obscure mechanics. Imagine if i would describe right now how cool that in DS2 while handing some katanas with both hands, after you do a running attack, a singular power attack would be faster than if you would initiate it from the beginning. Feel imressed yet? No? Neither was i.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Dopey Shepard:

5) All the games are button mashers. The only difference is that my 1st person Skyrim doesn't require me to roll to avoid a large AOE attack, I can simply block it with my shield, or actually strafe/walk diagonally backwards away from it, but in Dark Souls I evade it, and then button mash from behind. At the end of it, there's almost no difference when dealing with petty enemies. All you have in your Souls games are over-complicated Boss fights you have to analyze and die to dozens of times to get them right. Hardly a compelling argument to implement that system into a TES game

1) You can block AOE attacks in Dark Souls as well. It's just requires a good shield designed for blocking large amoung of damage and decent amount of stamina, maybe even boosted by rings or spellbuffs if he not leveled up enough. In DS1 and DS2 shields are so viable, you can beat the game without rolling by simply blocking all the attacks, including boss attacks, including boss AOE attacks.

Anyway, how can you judge the unability of blocking? You played Bloodborne that only had two non-viable meme-shields. Would you like if i, without playing all the TES games, would call all of them stupid, because you can just shout to everyone to drop them from the height? That's would be just as wrong.

Rolls in DS are most viable not because of soulslike system, but because game is very hard. I can see how game can be soulslike while still being easy enough so even a complete valenock could block most of the attacks.

2) You die to bosses not because they are overcomplicated, but because they are hard. Difficulty and combat system are not tied to each other. If bosses in Dark Souls would do small damage so you can survive for long without dodging, they still be as comlicated.

Anyway, how can you complain about boss having many moves? What's your logic based on? If dragons in Skyrim from the beginning would have as many moves and combos as dragon Kalameet had in DS1 (there is like 15-20 of different attacks) while still having the same amount of health and damage, everyone would be impressed because dragons would feel more capable and epic, nobody would complain about "why dragons have so many different moves? I want them to have as few moves as possible". Nobody. I can see how people may dislike difficulty, but amount of animations never ever hurt anyone.
SC: Blacklist had 9 different animations for getting bodies off the ground - not a single person called "body taking system" overcomplicated.

All your complain about is "rolls", "parries" and "difficulty". Now you gonna list "variable boss movesets" as a flaw too? You really think "boss keep doing the same few moves over and over again" better? That's the best Skyrim deserves?

[Dopey Shepard]

Yeah didnt read, just saw this in the middle

What exactly weapon you describing? Dragonbone longsword? Daedric dagger? Greathammers? Or just literally all the melee weapons existing in the game because there is so little difference between them?

I'm talking about executing perfect 1 one handed weapon animation cancel, when you do an attack, if you then hold LMB for just a little bit you can make your previous animation cancel into a power attack, thus increasing your DPS. This can be done with almost any weapon except for daggers because they already attack very fast, not sure if doing that strat is that beneficial to them. Power attacks (standing ones) stagger your opponent most of the time so yeah, I learned how to do that animation cancel attack not just with my slow Mace of Molag Bal, but also with fast Chillrend


This strat is actually not used by many players that I've happened to see play on YT/twitch


So yeah, I myself have no reason to try to learn your garbage souls mechanics on the off chance they could be better than whatever we already have in a game that has these kind of secret strats the game doesn't tell you about

Or how about the fact that you actually walk backwards at full speed if you walk diagonally instead of holding "S"? The game also doesn't really tell you that

If you gather the knowledge of all the different strats you can do in the game, your combat proficiency will rise like crazy. I saw my brother struggling with this game while I was sitting next to him laughing, he was playing my own character (1h/shield) and my brother actually plays Bloodborne

Don't like it? Use mods, plain and simple

[A very spicy burrito]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Dopey Shepard:

Oprindeligt skrevet af A very spicy burrito:

I like how whenever someone has an opposing opinion to oneself it immediately makes them a troll.

Also to me it's hilarious that someone is complaining about a combat system they have never used before and is actually mortified at the idea of anything other than clicking mouse 1 and seeing the same two swings repeated indefinitely without any altercation in technique between weapon types.

On a side note, where the flying ♥♥♥♥ did you get the idea that Dark Souls was a button masher?


BTW I don't think that suggesting any depth to combat in a game is an attempt to propagate Michanicks' political agenda through misinformation, so you might want to look into your use of the word propaganda.

I suggest you enhance your reading skills maybe
1) The conclusion about somebody having an opposing opinion being a troll is not an imminent one, just go and sift through the last pages of the responses ever since my first post in this megathread

2) WHO said I never used a certain combat system before? Again, I played Bloodborne, more than enough to know I don't like it's combat system, and I played DS3 a little bit

3) It's actually more than 2 swings repeated, maybe learn how to count

4) There is definitely certain degree of technique applied even to Skyrim's "mouse 1" swinging. How about doing attack animation cancel when you do a swing into a power attack, or double rapid swings after executing that said power attack? You wouldn't understand anyway

5) All the games are button mashers. The only difference is that my 1st person Skyrim doesn't require me to roll to avoid a large AOE attack, I can simply block it with my shield, or actually strafe/walk diagonally backwards away from it, but in Dark Souls I evade it, and then button mash from behind. At the end of it, there's almost no difference when dealing with petty enemies. All you have in your Souls games are over-complicated Boss fights you have to analyze and die to dozens of times to get them right. Hardly a compelling argument to implement that system into a TES game

1. My statement about trolls was a bit of a generalisation of patterns I have observed in the forums and even though you didn't immediately resort to declaring all opposing opinion holders trolls, you still ended up doing it.

2. Bloodborne is different to Dark Souls combat wise as a result of the pacing and how things are balanced around that more aggressive rhythm, but I'm not going to go into this. Dark Souls 3 is closer to Bloodborne in combat pacing than Dark Souls 1

3. Well it sure as ♥♥♥♥ feels that way, excluding power attacks of course.

4. Yes, there is also I certain degree in technique when it comes to flicking a light switch, that doesn't make it a complex art. Also you are still clicking mouse 1 repeatedly, just with different timing in order to abuse shoddy programming whilst also still rigorously defending the repeated pressing of a single button.

5. I seem to remember that in Dark Souls 1 you can also block with a shield to great effect (it is actually ridiculously effective in that game) and simply strafing to avoid the attacks of enemies being a highly effective strategy that is preferable to rolling in the majority of scenarios.
This is because of the stamina system and the delay before you can roll again, which when combined with the split second calculation of weather you should use your limited stamina to attack and risk damage or roll/run to safety at the cost of possibly missing out on your opportunity to attack, mixed with attack queuing, results in a system that punishes button mashing.

Question, how far did you get in both Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 and what exactly turned you off from them combat wise?