Dwarven bows.... sigh....

[One Eye Jack]

They defy the laws of physics. Got dwarven ingots, got iron ingots. All is well. I turn them into dwarven bows and suddenly I'm carrying too much to run.....

So why do they weigh more than what they're made of?

[dolmore]

Arrowheads and spearpoints don't need to flex (too short), so casting is more efficient for large scale production. Bronze weapons were brittle and copper too soft, so they weren't used for a long period of time before steel came into being. Crossbow arms have been made from steel going back to the middle ages.

I'm not a bowhunter, but aren't most modern bows made from steel?

Anyhow, it's a fantasy game. When have you ever seen a real bow made from glass or dragonbone?

[One Eye Jack]

Originally posted by dolmore:

Arrowheads and spearpoints don't need to flex (too short), so casting is more efficient for large scale production. Bronze weapons were brittle and copper too soft, so they weren't used for a long period of time before steel came into being. Crossbow arms have been made from steel going back to the middle ages.

I'm not a bowhunter, but aren't most modern bows made from steel?

Anyhow, it's a fantasy game. When have you ever seen a real bow made from glass or dragonbone?

Well lot's of bows are made from fiberglass so that's sorta a glass bow. And dragon bone......hmm.. since there aren't any real dragons.... who knows. Dragonbones might be super flexible and great for bows. 😆

[Nate]

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

Originally posted by dolmore:

Cast metals (like iron) can be tempered to increase malleability, but the burning off of the carbon also softens it. Forged metals on the other hand will maintain surface hardness while increasing ductility. How much depends on the tempering method used. Swords, crossbow arms, knives, etc. are made from forged metal for that reason. Only Hollywood movies cast sword blades.

You miss my point, it's debatable because Steel bows were never a real thing, you probably could make one, but I don't know of any ever made.

As for the draw, I suspect that any metal bow strong enough to be used would have a very heavy draw, possibly too strong for a person.

And bronze swords were cast, as well as some daggers and arrow heads. Not a great practice for daggers, since they were usually too fragile.

steel swords and armor were and still are a thing, however its just carbon infused iron, in ancient times they would take their iron armor and heat it red hot (entire helmets, chest plates etc.) then pour charcoal over them to create a microscopic layer of steel to add protective value which did indeed work. however artifacts all show it has worn off and you can see the wear marks of the steel plating being sheared off by battle in real life museums today.

[theo]

Because in-game weight is an abstract representation of weight AND size. Not just pounds or kilos

[SgtScum]

Originally posted by Vlad 254:

Originally posted by hawklaser:

Tamriel just has a funny way of conserving mass... after all normal iron daggers weigh more than their components too.

this is one reason some use weight altering mods.

Yep. Have a weapon and potion and material weight balance mod to make it more 'realistic' as far as realism goes in this game. Does allow for packing in much more trinkets and other useful goodies when doing a dungeon crawl.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by Mazda3Nate:

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

You miss my point, it's debatable because Steel bows were never a real thing, you probably could make one, but I don't know of any ever made.

As for the draw, I suspect that any metal bow strong enough to be used would have a very heavy draw, possibly too strong for a person.

And bronze swords were cast, as well as some daggers and arrow heads. Not a great practice for daggers, since they were usually too fragile.

steel swords and armor were and still are a thing, however its just carbon infused iron, in ancient times they would take their iron armor and heat it red hot (entire helmets, chest plates etc.) then pour charcoal over them to create a microscopic layer of steel to add protective value which did indeed work. however artifacts all show it has worn off and you can see the wear marks of the steel plating being sheared off by battle in real life museums today.

I hate to say this, but you clearly do not know history.

The view that steel is Iron with carbon is a VERY modern one, historically any Iron was what is called Pig-Iron. The problem with Pig-Iron is it has TOO MUCH carbon, so adding more does Nothing. Historically the way they created Steel was by Beating the Carbon OUT of it, usually by literally hitting it with a hammer (the carbon sparked and burnt off leaving Iron with less Carbon but still not pure).

It wasn't until the Victorian Era that this changed. That's less than two hundred years ago at most, and probably closer to a hundred and fifty years ago.

The crap about them adding Carbon was created by fantasy writers (most famously Conan) who knew and cared nothing about metalworking history.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by One Eye Jack:

Originally posted by dolmore:

Arrowheads and spearpoints don't need to flex (too short), so casting is more efficient for large scale production. Bronze weapons were brittle and copper too soft, so they weren't used for a long period of time before steel came into being. Crossbow arms have been made from steel going back to the middle ages.

I'm not a bowhunter, but aren't most modern bows made from steel?

Anyhow, it's a fantasy game. When have you ever seen a real bow made from glass or dragonbone?

Well lot's of bows are made from fiberglass so that's sorta a glass bow. And dragon bone......hmm.. since there aren't any real dragons.... who knows. Dragonbones might be super flexible and great for bows. 😆

Pretty much what I was saying.

Metal bows are fantasy, nobody knows anything about them, other than generics about metal qualities, could be they are utterly useless.

Modern Bows are FibreGlass, which is just stretched and molded glass (not sure how they make it know, but originally it was strands of glass that were heated and slowly stretched to make really thin flexible hairlike strands of glass). Apart from Komodo Dragons and Seadragons (cousins to Seahorses) there are no Dragons, so their bones could be made of anything.....

[Valden21]

This game takes place in a fantasy setting where the stars are holes in the fabric of space-time, deities and magic are real, and the game's protagonist is a mortal with a dragon's soul. Why are we bringing IRL physics into this?

[Liquid Inc]

Originally posted by Valden21:

Why are we bringing IRL physics into this?

Atleast it's remaining relatively civil, and, someone might learn something? i don't know...

If this thread wasn't here, it could have been a Pjedi thread!

[dolmore]

Originally posted by One Eye Jack:

Originally posted by dolmore:

Arrowheads and spearpoints don't need to flex (too short), so casting is more efficient for large scale production. Bronze weapons were brittle and copper too soft, so they weren't used for a long period of time before steel came into being. Crossbow arms have been made from steel going back to the middle ages.

I'm not a bowhunter, but aren't most modern bows made from steel?

Anyhow, it's a fantasy game. When have you ever seen a real bow made from glass or dragonbone?

Well lot's of bows are made from fiberglass so that's sorta a glass bow. And dragon bone......hmm.. since there aren't any real dragons.... who knows. Dragonbones might be super flexible and great for bows. 😆

What the game refers to as ebony is undoubtedly obsidian since real ebony is wood, not an ore. Obsidian being volcanic glass, I suppose they would qualify as glass weapons.

I have an ex-wife who had dragonbone for a heart and she wasn't the least bit flexible.

[theo]

Originally posted by Valden21:

This game takes place in a fantasy setting where the stars are holes in the fabric of space-time, deities and magic are real, and the game's protagonist is a mortal with a dragon's soul. Why are we bringing IRL physics into this?

Because none of this cancels gravity. Fantasy doesn't mean everything is random chaos and is allowed to not make any sense. Fantasy settings have structure and laws too. That's what makes the difference between fantasy and fairytale genres

[Altbert]

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

You miss my point, it's debatable because Steel bows were never a real thing, you probably could make one, but I don't know of any ever made.

As for the draw, I suspect that any metal bow strong enough to be used would have a very heavy draw, possibly too strong for a person.

At least one steel bow is a real thing: an 18th/early 19th century steel bow from Mughal India, a military weapon. It's in the Charles E. Grayson Collection at the University of Missouri Museum of Anthropology (Cat.No. 1995-0766A). Draw weight is unknown.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by Altbert:

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

You miss my point, it's debatable because Steel bows were never a real thing, you probably could make one, but I don't know of any ever made.

As for the draw, I suspect that any metal bow strong enough to be used would have a very heavy draw, possibly too strong for a person.

At least one steel bow is a real thing: an 18th/early 19th century steel bow from Mughal India, a military weapon. It's in the Charles E. Grayson Collection at the University of Missouri Museum of Anthropology (Cat.No. 1995-0766A). Draw weight is unknown.

OK, so you can make a steel bow then.
The fact it coincided with guns means we will never know how practical it was.

[Altbert]

Maybe as practical as the compound bows used in the Vietnam war: silent. And probably used in forest areas. I estimate their draw weight at least over 100 lbs. World record, btw, is 200 lbs.