Do you prefer Imperial or Stormcloak? Why?

[Limdood]

So I searched for this topic first, and the result is 5 months old and devolved into some pretty petty fighting. Hopefully this one will stay more civil?

I'm curious how people view generally needing to side with one or the other.

I'll preface my view by saying that I firmly believe both factions are "in the wrong".....this is classic GOOD sandbox story writing....make all the sides flawed and the player is left realizing they need to ally with an evil to accomplish a good

I'm definitely generally in favor of the Imperials...they seem to have the best chance to resist the Thalmor (Cyrodiil and Skyrim together rather than both separately) second war that is obviously coming.

First off, Both sides definitely hate the Thalmor. Officially, the Empire's POV is that they would have been completely destroyed if they hadn't signed the White-Gold Concordat and banned Talos worship. Clearly the Thalmor weren't 100% sure, or didn't think they'd be able to weather the consequences of destroying the empire, so they were able to force a treaty hugely favorable to them. In keeping with their reputation as master manipulators, they expertly forced concessions into the treaty that fractured the relations of the remaining 3 members of the empire. Hammerfell split off due to being upset their land was given away, and Skyrim is bitter that their faith is undermined, and the Thalmor are expertly using the Imperials as the FACE of that religious oppression. It's very clear that the empire has no problem with talos worship, but this was forced on them in order to avoid destruction.

Now, that doesn't exonerate the empire...they're still enforcing their will on a different state to preserve their own hides, and they have plenty of atrocities under their belt in the past, but with the Thalmor poised as the major threat, a united Skyrim/Cyrodiil, while still at a likely disadvantage against the Thalmor, almost certainly stands a better chance than those two nations divided and unfriendly.

Additionally, It's really hard for me to get over the blatant hostile racism of the Skyrim nords (evidenced not only on the small scale, by events like the dark elf when first entering Windhelm, but on the large scale too, shown by talking with shopkeepers if the stormcloaks take whiterun (all the non-nord shopkeepers are getting boycotted) and the pre-game-era driving of most of the elves out of the college of Winterhold). It strongly smacks of mirroring the Thalmor's own beliefs and actions, just with less severity.

[Dallas S]

Автор сообщения: Qua2ar

Stormcloak, because I am a true son of skyrim.

So you're a snow Elf that wants to get rid of the Nord invaders?

[theyangman0]

Автор сообщения: theo

Empire because I'm not 14 years old and I know the lore. Skyrim always was part of the Empire, it's not a separate state suddenly invaded by the imperials for this freedom rhetoric to make any sense

Just because a state or people have always been a part of another power doesn't mean they should never try to be free from it. If that's really the logic we're going with, we would have to condemn every single civil conflict that has happened in human history (The American Revolution, French Revolution, and the Russian Revolution to name the well-known ones). Regardless of thoughts on either historical rebellions or the Elder Scrolls rendition of this, point is that it doesn't matter that Skyrim's been a part of the Empire since its beginnings. The fact is that they find reason now to separate from the Empire, same as the British colonies and the French Revolutionaries did during their time. People will turn against an authority if they believe it has failed them, even if that authority isn't a separate or invasive power.

Having said that, I still view the Stormcloaks' objectives as somewhat short-sighted. Ultimately, the Stromcloaks fight for independence to preserve their traditional and religious values as well as because they wish to strike back against the Dominion alone. While the Empire is trying to conserve and regain their strength for the next clash. The Empire's objective is clearly the more smarter of the two given the already heavy price they paid to secure this momentary peace. Also, a war between an independent Skyrim with the Dominion may not fare much better than Hammerfell's war with them, but at least that will only be Skyrim's soldiers and resources being spent instead of the Empire's. That's why I divide my allegiance based on my current character's preferred method of action. Are they the type to bring the fight to their enemies or are they the type to try to prepare and secure as much power as they can for an eventual conflict?

[lizrdfishr]

No reason to join either.

If you don't join either, no cities are besieged and it makes no difference anyway.

Just say no.

[masternoxx1]

Well stormcloak is the obvious "good guy" choice,

if you're helping imperials, then obiously, you never heard of a faction, gaining too much power.

[YamaCUH]

I will say the same as when I was younger. Skyrim was so special to me because its basically a Viking/Hobbit game there the ancient ruins of the Dwarf kingdom like Thorins underground mountain kingdom. Elves of multiple kinds, and the DLC is honestly a chefs kiss content wise to the unmodded vanilla game.

I couldnt play oblivion bc we couldnt afford a xbox or ps3 back in 09. So Diving into Skyrim I was hyped on what I was getting into.

From a Elder scrolls Virgin perspective, I was returning to skyrim whatever reasons as we are not alleged to Ulfric. The Imperials wrongfully arrest me, then go to execute without trial. My name isnt on the list and the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ captain says kill me anyway.
So I see these Roman looking Aholes that kill me instead of giving the chance right there for them to be like oh Stranger do you support this man or do you join us. Instead the whole political influence is who you follow out of Helgen and listen to on the way to the river town.

TLDR Stormcloakes are vikings and I thought it was amusing they were racist to Dark Elves. And while High elves were the ones enslaving all them.
The Empire just gave off Bollywood roman vibes and I wanted a viking game.

No one cared about Greek Kratos, but when he got in a fight with Baldur everyone suddenly is a GoW fan

[theo]

Автор сообщения: theyangman0

Just because a state or people have always been a part of another power

Except they're not a state of people (yet) and there isn't another power, it's all the same Empire. Stormcloaks represent only a small political group led by a charismatic leader, not all nords or Skyrim as a whole. Basically bandits/terrorists.
But yeah that's what all left revolutionaries did, claimed to represent the people no matter how resistant or indifferent the people actually was to their cabal.

Автор сообщения: theyangman0

The fact is that they find reason now to separate from the Empire, same as the British colonies and the French Revolutionaries did during their time.

The situation is not quite the same but yes, why not. Point was that it just doesn't make sense how uninformed people (both players and in-game characters) see this conflict.
Even tradition argument sounds strange since it's Ulfric who broke the tradition and Talos is an Imperial deity in the first place, traditionally nords have a different pantheon. But they may aswell start worshipping dragons again, for the tradition's sake.

Yes, this is something that absolutely could happen, and did happen irl, but it makes the whole affair dumb, dirty and hypocritical

[theyangman0]

Автор сообщения: theo

Автор сообщения: theyangman0

Just because a state or people have always been a part of another power

Except they're not a state of people (yet) and there isn't another power, it's all the same Empire. Stormcloaks represent only a small political group led by a charismatic leader, not all nords or Skyrim as a whole. Basically bandits/terrorists.
But yeah that's what all left revolutionaries did, claimed to represent the people no matter how resistant or indifferent the people actually was to their cabal.

Автор сообщения: theyangman0

The fact is that they find reason now to separate from the Empire, same as the British colonies and the French Revolutionaries did during their time.

The situation is not quite the same but yes, why not. Point was that it just doesn't make sense how uninformed people (both players and in-game characters) see this conflict.
Even tradition argument sounds strange since it's Ulfric who broke the tradition and Talos is an Imperial deity in the first place, traditionally nords have a different pantheon. But they may aswell start worshipping dragons again, for the tradition's sake.

Yes, this is something that absolutely could happen, and did happen irl, but it makes the whole affair dumb, dirty and hypocritical

Skyrim is literally a separate province from Cyrodiil. The Empire's beginning's may be traced back to Skyrim, but ultimately the seat of power for the Empire has always been in Cyrodiil, who has power even over Skyrim's High King, making it a separate authority. And of course the Stormcloaks don't represent the entirety of Skyrim. If they did there wouldn't be a civil war. Even in the American Revolution there were loyalists and in the French Revolution there were counter-revolutionaries. If not having your entire race/nationality unanimously support your cause makes you just a bandit or terrorist, then every military force ever would fit that bill since there will always be a sizable fraction of people who oppose their country's current policies. The Stormcloaks are very well a political group with a charismatic leader. Yet the fact remains that the Stormcloaks have enough support that by the game's start, almost half the Jarls of Skyrim support his cause. Saerlund, the Riften Jarls' son, probably words it best: "His cause may be true, but the man is a lie."

And I think there's a difference between trying to maintain tradition over completely reviving a forgotten or dead one. The Dragon Cult died specifically because the dragons and their followers became tyrants and essentially enslaved their Nord subjects. Their faith and thus loyalty to the Dragon Cult was broken, so why would they return to what is both a bygone religion and a faction that betrayed them? As for the others of the Nordic pantheon, they're generally just the Nordic version of the Cyrodilic Divines. And as the Nords have been allied with the Cyrodilic Empire since its formation, they've likely long since grown accustomed to using the Cyrodilic names of their gods. Kind of a stretch to expect them to be able to revert to a pantheon that very few remember especially when it's also a pantheon that's essentially just the gods they're currently worshiping under different names.

And Talos may be consider an "Imperial" god, but he was also a Nord in life. That alone gives the Nords plenty to revere him not as an "Imperial" god, but as "Their" god, as to them it may as well be proof that the Divines favor them. They were granted an afterlife in Sovngarde and then had one of their own raised to divinity, That's probably the big reason why the Stormcloaks seek to continue worshiping Talos while the Imperials ultimately outlawed it. A Nord rising to a state of divinity would be revered more by Nords than by Imperials after all.

[alexander_dougherty]

I hate Galmar and Ulfric, they just rub me up the wrong way, add to that I like Balgruf....
I dislike Maven Blackbriar though, but she stays as the power behind the Jarl if you chose Stormcloak.....

On the whole, there is little difference between the two sides, each side replaces a good Jarl with a Bad Jarl, both sides have good and bad people in the ranks, and the missions are pretty similar.....

But I hate Galmar and Ulfric....

[Skumboni]

Side with the Imperials. when Maven is jarl marry her daughter that way your wife will become yarl and you got a meadery in the family. Wins all around.

[Smugass Braixen-Chan]

Stormcloaks because they didn't try to separate my head from my shoulders.

The game really doesn't give you a good enough reason to side with the Empire after they literally tried to murder you.

You weren't even on their execution list, yet they tried to cut your head off anyway just because you were there.

It was more convenient for the Imperials to just kill the lizard and go about their day. So it's only fair-play to say that it's convenient for Stabs-Your-Face to kill every last one of them and take their stuff.

[alexander_dougherty]

Автор сообщения: Smugass Braixen-Chan

Stormcloaks because they didn't try to separate my head from my shoulders.

Ulfric and his Stormcloaks use you as bait to draw off the attacking Dragon....
No reason to side with them either.

[theo]

But Talos wasn't a nord.
If any divine power favors human races (and nords as the most pure) it's Shor, the controversial Satan of the7 Elder Scrolls mythos

[Limdood]

Автор сообщения: Smugass Braixen-Chan

Stormcloaks because they didn't try to separate my head from my shoulders.

This is Super valid. I tend to lean imperial, but dang do I wish that stupid choice in the beginning (like, they could have pulled carts around the side and had you watch from there, waiting to be hauled off to prison, and the dragon attacked during Ulfric's beheading) wasn't there.

Bethesda made a heck of a game, but even with all their attention to detail in other places, glaring oversights like "imperials tried to kill you - who do you follow???" or "vampire with an elder scroll that embodies EXACTLY what you were sent there to fight....lets escort her home instead of fighting her or at least securing the elder scroll" and even later "vampires with elder scrolls are a menace! oh, the elder scroll-carrying vampire came to see us....but lets ignore that"

It's a wonderful sandbox game except when they clearly didn't think through how to deal with some player choices or consequence....and then suddenly it railroads

[alexander_dougherty]

Автор сообщения: Limdood

Автор сообщения: Smugass Braixen-Chan

Stormcloaks because they didn't try to separate my head from my shoulders.

This is Super valid.

except

Автор сообщения: alexander_dougherty

Автор сообщения: Smugass Braixen-Chan

Stormcloaks because they didn't try to separate my head from my shoulders.

Ulfric and his Stormcloaks use you as bait to draw off the attacking Dragon....
No reason to side with them either.

[Wizard]

Автор сообщения: alexander_dougherty

Автор сообщения: Limdood

This is Super valid.

except

Автор сообщения: alexander_dougherty

Ulfric and his Stormcloaks use you as bait to draw off the attacking Dragon....
No reason to side with them either.

I'll take being bait over a beheading any day.

Being bait meant you just needed to run. Saving you from beheading took a dragon.