Arthmoor is the biggest problem with modding in this game.

[Nyarlathotep]

He has enough pull with the nexusmods people to get any other unofficial patch removed, and while his has some useful features, I hate how it doesn't just fix bugs but is basically "Skyrim according to how Arthmoor thinks it should be".

[th]

Publicado originalmente por Liquid Inc:

he spent the time making a patch that fixes bugs and glitches across the game. His own time, for free, for you, and you complain about it?

+1.

Publicado originalmente por alexander_dougherty:

As such Arthmoor stopped listening, because EVERY SINGLE FIX GOT HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS OF COMPLAINTS.... under those circumstances he had three options A) try to compromise (impossible btw) B) shut down the patch C) Do what he felt was right and ignore the complaints....

+1 too.

People who blame Arthmoor ALWAYS use C-way and NEVER realise that fact. So it is totally fair that Arthmoor uses it too. It's called justice. Well, at least I would call it that.

Publicado originalmente por Tao314zdin:

They even blatantly lie about the goal of the patch.

It's not technically (not necessarily legally though) a lie if an author of these words truly believes thay he says the truth.

But others may see it differently. So what you are trying to do is to force other person to use your own opinion of what lie is and what isn't. And what does it mean? It means that you are a selfish person who doesn't care about others opinions and rights.

So when you throw your charge you have to prove it. Can you do it without using any subjective estimations? For example link here some Arthmoor's interview where he clearly says "yes, I don't consider this change as a bugfix, I just like this change to be done that way".

Publicado originalmente por Tao314zdin:

not try to sell it as bugfix.

I doubt that you can use word "to sell" here.

[theo]

Publicado originalmente por Roccondil:

I also find it interesting that some are calling USSEP a "fraud" because it "overhauls" the game... we must have very different definitions of overhaul, apparently.

By my understanding, an overhaul is something that completely changes the target. Something like Enderal. The user would have to be blind and deaf to not realize that Skyrim has been changed with Enderal installed. Whereas with USSEP... if the user hadn't looked at the bugfix list, would they even realize that USSEP has been installed compared to Bethesda's bug-filled releases?

It was hard to not notice orc NPC clones spawning randomly everywhere, a bug that was caused by USSEP adding new NPC schedules for no reason.
But yeah in a sense that's the reason I don't use USSEP - you don't notice the difference because vanilla bugs ain't that bad, nor are they worse than whatever USSEP does

[th]

I've never noticed orc NPC clones.

[Von Faustien]

Publicado originalmente por th:

I've never noticed orc NPC clones.

i once had about 20 louies letrush clones chilling outside whiterun made the battle for the city fun when it became a 3 way between them empire, storm cloaks and hourse thife hive mind. that was the ps3 version however

[theo]

Publicado originalmente por Liquid Inc:

he spent the time making a patch that fixes bugs and glitches across the game. His own time, for free, for you, and you complain about it?

OP spent his own time to write a complaint, for free, for you, and you dare to complain about his complaint instead of just leaving this thread?

Publicado originalmente por Halliwax:

What a "bug" is is subjective

To some extent. Some things USSEP 'fixes' aren't bugs by any viable definition. Like the ebony mine problem, or added NPC schedules.
And main reason the definition of bug gets stretched in this case is USSEP simps who tend to look for excuses for these 'fixes' to make sense, because of the initial bias they have.

[alexander_dougherty]

Publicado originalmente por amathy oniichan uwu:

Publicado originalmente por alexander_dougherty:

Just don't call them an unofficial patch, the Skyrim unofficial patch is Arthmoor's creation, so he defends it's reputation.

Arthmoor can't get a patch pulled if it doesn't use that terminology, if you called it the "Skyrim SE Amateur Modding Patch" or the "Skyrim SE Overhaul Patch" you would be fine, Arthmoor might not like it, but so long as you differentiate between your patch and his he would have no grounds for a complaint.

They don't actually have the rights to a descriptive term like unofficial patch. That would be similar to trying to go after people for using the word blue.

People on the USSEP team have admitted they go out of their way to go after rival mods and anything that attempts to change USSEP, to which they've had varying amounts of success with mods like Reconciliation getting nuked from the Bethesda site multiple times and RUASLEEP now only existing on mega & google drives.

There have been weirder legal cases. Just don't call it the unofficial patch and you won't get pulled

[alexander_dougherty]

Publicado originalmente por sdack:

Publicado originalmente por alexander_dougherty:

I am familiar with it, but I am also familiar with Intelllectual Property, ...

Do not kid yourself. Forget the IP nonsense when you are talking about modders. The modding community has never respected it to begin with. Modders have been stealing each other's ideas from the start, making different mods for the same things, which end up being incompatible to one other of course.

IP law says otherwise, and it has successfully been applied to mods under UK law, so learn to respect it. Nexus has to comply with UK law, so don't expect them to adopy a free share model anytime ever.

[SpeedFreak1972]

Well my stance is although I concur it changes more than it should I also see that it fixed a lot of bugs .... and as said feel free not to use the patch or alter it for your own use or make your own version.

As for the remark that mods are not under copyright law .... right that would be the reason why countles mods that blatantly disregarded copyrights are pulled from the Nexus.

[Tao314zdin]

Publicado originalmente por Liquid Inc:

Your acting like it's a forced thing... (when it isn't) if you hate it this much, the only answer is not to use it. just like -any- mod for this game or others.

That is the stupidest thing I head in that thread so far... where did I say I was forced into anything?

They don't force you to take it in any shape, but they also do not tell you what it really is. I will requote from the description page:

"A comprehensive bugfixing mod for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - Special Edition. The goal of the Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch (aka USSEP) is to eventually fix every bug with Skyrim Special Edition not officially resolved by the developers to the limits of the Creation Kit and community-developed tools, in one easy-to-install package."

Where do you find there that they change a ton of things that did not bug-out anything? You call, for example, gender in a dialog a BUG? A MFK BUG? Well with that logic anything one does not like can be called a bug.

And then newcomers come, read the description, install the mod and after dozens of hours invested in the character learn that they was tricked and a ton of unannounced sht was placed into the game under the cover of "bugfixing". And then sure - remove the mod and lose dosens of hours placed into the char.

Do you think the mod authors could not see that happening? Did they not know that a lot of what they put in was completely unexpected to be found in the mod based on the description they gave? Did they not anticipate that people will have to remove the mod many hours in when they by accident found what was in, ruining their playthroughs?

^They are well aware of that. And they could very easily prevent it by listing a few of the most controversial changes on the mod page (like chest, restoloop, gender, mines) so the ones seeing it for the first time would get the idea what kind of "bugfixing" the mod does.

But did they do it - no. Why? IMO because they are AHs, they know that if ppl new from the get go what the mod does a lot of them would not download it, as well as a lot of mod authors would not consider it for dependence making downloads go even deeper. So they hide it ruining ppl playthroughs and wasting many-dozens of hours to them. Once again because they are AHs, what else can you conclude from that?

[SpeedFreak1972]

There are also mods that reverse a couple of changes ... for instance a mod that adds the resto loop in or reverts the ore situation in Redbelly mine

[Tao314zdin]

Publicado originalmente por SpeedFreak1972:

There are also mods that reverse a couple of changes ... for instance a mod that adds the resto loop in or reverts the ore situation in Redbelly mine

Is there one that reverts dialog changes and extra NPCs behaviours?

[SpeedFreak1972]

Maybe not sure it wouldn't surprise me.

[th]

Publicado originalmente por Tao314zdin:

Where do you find there that they change a ton of things that did not bug-out anything? You call, for example, gender in a dialog a BUG? A MFK BUG? Well with that logic anything one does not like can be called a bug.

At last you see the thing. Yes, anything might be considered a bug. Not by only Arthmoor, but also by Tao314zdin. That is the problem. Arthmoor and you are equal in that problem. So you have to be more convincing than him to prove your point.

Publicado originalmente por Tao314zdin:

like chest, restoloop, gender, mines

Yes, chest, restoloop and gender may obviously be considered as bugs by many. Why do you think that it is your opinion which is the only truth? Wrong. You think those are not bugs. I think they are bugs. How do you suggest we solve this? Suggest something good, be my guest. But I'll consider only such ideas which would be fair from my point of view. Doing it your way, ignoring mine is not such an idea by a textbook definition.

And may be that fix of that mine is more or less good example of a wrong bug fix. I just don't know enough info to judge. But I do know that with such huge amount of fixes it's impossible to be flawless in every single one of them. Sometimes you have to use a compromise.

[Mandrake109]

I would not be surprised honestly, if this went beyond bug fixing. I don't want to dunk on them as I don't doubt this was a lot of work which shouldn't have been necessary but, their fans are just as bad.
I once commented that the quest The Wolf Queen Awakens was still broken even with just the patch active and their fans went nuts.
Needless to say the quest is still broken for me.

[SpeedFreak1972]

Well to be honest hadn't any issues with that quest lately that said it could be a combination of things