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alexander_dougherty Dec 30, 2022 @ 11:20am
Nirn's tides?
I have been thinking (bad idea I know) what exactly generates the tides on Nirn?

On Earth it's the Gravity of the Moon, but Nirn has at least two Moons (arguably three according to the lore, ie black Moon) and if these were producing tides then you would be getting a weirder tide pattern than we supposedly get (Earthlike tides).....

Which leads me to ask, are the Tides on Nirn generated by the Moons? or is it generated by something else? or is it simply not looked at?
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
SgtScum Dec 30, 2022 @ 12:30pm 
There are tidal mechanics in this game? New one to me.
#1
Docsprock Dec 30, 2022 @ 12:47pm 
Well, there appears to be gravity. Which means mass has attraction in this universe. Therefore, if there were tides, (I am not aware of any tidal forces at work), the moons influences would be the cause. Perhaps the moons gravities cancel each other out, and we get the no-tide effect.

I have thought carefully about the Skyrim night sky. The way Masser and Secundis rise in the Northeast and set in the Southeast, Nirn must be a moon along with the others. All these moons are orbiting something I have not been made aware of.
#2
Ilja Dec 30, 2022 @ 12:57pm 
It is generally considered that Skyrim night sky is was lazy work. Otherwise the moon theory would be correct, though nothing in lore suggest that.

I am using a mod that changes this. Let's see how BGS approaches this in TES 6, around the year 2165.
#3
Valden21 Dec 30, 2022 @ 1:16pm 
Originally posted by Docsprock:
Well, there appears to be gravity. Which means mass has attraction in this universe. Therefore, if there were tides, (I am not aware of any tidal forces at work), the moons influences would be the cause. Perhaps the moons gravities cancel each other out, and we get the no-tide effect.

I have thought carefully about the Skyrim night sky. The way Masser and Secundis rise in the Northeast and set in the Southeast, Nirn must be a moon along with the others. All these moons are orbiting something I have not been made aware of.

I'm not sure that the moons affect the tides. IRL, the moon affects the tides because it has a slight gravitational pull on Earth, but the IRL moon is also an actual physical object. No so with the TES moons. Instead, both of them are spirits that died and became separate planes of existence, according to what UESP says about this. So if they're not actually physical objects, do they a gravitational impact on Nirn? We've seen that Nirn has gravity, and I'm pretty sure it has tides, but I doubt Masser and Secunda are the cause of those tides. Considering what they are, the logic just doesn't add up for me.
Last edited by Valden21; Dec 30, 2022 @ 1:16pm
#4
theo Dec 30, 2022 @ 1:19pm 
Originally posted by Docsprock:
Well, there appears to be gravity. Which means mass has attraction in this universe.
No it doesn't. The existence of gravity doesn't mean it is mass that causes it. It could be that Nirn is flat and the gravity is just there.
Mundus probably doesn't work like real space so applying the laws of physics to celestial bodies in TES is only ok as a theory. They aren't even physical objects as far as people on Nirn are concerned.
Last edited by theo; Dec 30, 2022 @ 1:20pm
#5
Docsprock Dec 30, 2022 @ 1:50pm 
Originally posted by theo:
Originally posted by Docsprock:
Well, there appears to be gravity. Which means mass has attraction in this universe.
No it doesn't. The existence of gravity doesn't mean it is mass that causes it. It could be that Nirn is flat and the gravity is just there.
Mundus probably doesn't work like real space so applying the laws of physics to celestial bodies in TES is only ok as a theory. They aren't even physical objects as far as people on Nirn are concerned.

So, its magic then.
#6
Black Hammer Dec 30, 2022 @ 1:56pm 
Just use the example of Earth. Earth's tides are already influenced by more than one thing: neap and spring tides are caused by the difference in angle from the moon and sun.

Basically, moon and sun pulling from same direction gets you a spring tide (the highest highs and lowest lows), while when they are at an opposing angle relative to Earth, you get a neap tide (lower highs and higher lows).

More moons would just give you more angles.
#7
Valden21 Dec 30, 2022 @ 3:02pm 
Originally posted by Black Hammer:
Just use the example of Earth.
tides are already influenced by more than one thing: neap and spring tides are caused by the difference in angle from the moon and sun.

Basically, moon and sun pulling from same direction gets you a spring tide (the highest highs and lowest lows), while when they are at an opposing angle relative to Earth, you get a neap tide (lower highs and higher lows).

More moons would just give you more angles.
That's how it works IRL, but not in TES. TES is a world where the stars are just holes in the fabric of space-time, and the raw stuff of magic comes through those holes from somewhere else. As I already mentioned, the moons in this setting are actually other planes of existence, not physical objects like moons are IRL. The rules that apply to IRL don't apply to the setting of the TES games. No, something else creates the tides in this setting.
#8
Docsprock Dec 30, 2022 @ 3:25pm 
Originally posted by Valden21:
Originally posted by Black Hammer:
Just use the example of Earth.
tides are already influenced by more than one thing: neap and spring tides are caused by the difference in angle from the moon and sun.

Basically, moon and sun pulling from same direction gets you a spring tide (the highest highs and lowest lows), while when they are at an opposing angle relative to Earth, you get a neap tide (lower highs and higher lows).

More moons would just give you more angles.
That's how it works IRL, but not in TES. TES is a world where the stars are just holes in the fabric of space-time, and the raw stuff of magic comes through those holes from somewhere else. As I already mentioned, the moons in this setting are actually other planes of existence, not physical objects like moons are IRL. The rules that apply to IRL don't apply to the setting of the TES games. No, something else creates the tides in this setting.

In that case, it could be some immense undersea leviathan moving over the sea floor.
#9
Ilja Dec 30, 2022 @ 3:27pm 
Originally posted by Docsprock:
In that case, it could be some immense undersea leviathan moving over the sea floor.

Knowing Bethesda, it is not a leviathan, but some damn big bug. :Owlcat_suspecting:
#10
alexander_dougherty Dec 31, 2022 @ 2:48am 
Originally posted by Black Hammer:
Just use the example of Earth. Earth's tides are already influenced by more than one thing: neap and spring tides are caused by the difference in angle from the moon and sun.

Basically, moon and sun pulling from same direction gets you a spring tide (the highest highs and lowest lows), while when they are at an opposing angle relative to Earth, you get a neap tide (lower highs and higher lows).

More moons would just give you more angles.
More than just more angles, when the moons align it would create Tsunamis..... which is the line of thinking that got me asking.
#11
alexander_dougherty Dec 31, 2022 @ 2:49am 
Originally posted by Docsprock:
Originally posted by Valden21:
That's how it works IRL, but not in TES. TES is a world where the stars are just holes in the fabric of space-time, and the raw stuff of magic comes through those holes from somewhere else. As I already mentioned, the moons in this setting are actually other planes of existence, not physical objects like moons are IRL. The rules that apply to IRL don't apply to the setting of the TES games. No, something else creates the tides in this setting.

In that case, it could be some immense undersea leviathan moving over the sea floor.
Or a giant slaughterfish.....
#12
alexander_dougherty Dec 31, 2022 @ 2:51am 
Originally posted by Valden21:
Originally posted by Black Hammer:
Just use the example of Earth.
tides are already influenced by more than one thing: neap and spring tides are caused by the difference in angle from the moon and sun.

Basically, moon and sun pulling from same direction gets you a spring tide (the highest highs and lowest lows), while when they are at an opposing angle relative to Earth, you get a neap tide (lower highs and higher lows).

More moons would just give you more angles.
That's how it works IRL, but not in TES. TES is a world where the stars are just holes in the fabric of space-time, and the raw stuff of magic comes through those holes from somewhere else. As I already mentioned, the moons in this setting are actually other planes of existence, not physical objects like moons are IRL. The rules that apply to IRL don't apply to the setting of the TES games. No, something else creates the tides in this setting.
The lore contradicts itself on this point, half saying they are planes of existance, half saying they are actually physical bodies....
#13
alexander_dougherty Dec 31, 2022 @ 2:51am 
Well looks like there is no definite answer then.
#14
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Date Posted: Dec 30, 2022 @ 11:20am
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