Reverse pickpocket and investor perk (speech)

[Kamuizin]

To make reverse pickpocket on merchants, to raise their refresh gold value from timeskip, do i need to invest in them before with the investor perk, or just placing the gold in their inventory do the deed and add the amount i reverse pickpocket to the store permanent limit?

Also, is there a bug with this? A limit of gold i can safely give before the merchant inventory break and don't register the reverse pickpocket gold?

Made some google searchs but the info i got is a bit confusing.

[Kamuizin]

Wow, forum's a bit active, just a little bump.

No one has the answer for this? :(!

[sdack]

What exactly is this supposed to do?

I use a mod to simply increase their amount of gold and be done with the limit:

"Rich Skyrim Merchants"
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/1772

[smr1957]

Anything over approximately 32,000 gold will cause the merchants to break (they will still buy anything you sell them, but you will not receive any gold for it). The above mod does NOT change this, as the gold limit is a game engine one - in fact, since the above mod increases the amount that merchants may have, it is actually more likely to induce the issue.

[Kamuizin]

引用自 sdack：

What exactly is this supposed to do?

I use a mod to simply increase their amount of gold and be done with the limit:

"Rich Skyrim Merchants"
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/1772

gold value: the amount of max gold a mercant has that refresh from time to time.

I researched some info in the investor perk of the speech. Apparently when you invest into a Merchant NPC the 500 gold go to their personal inventory and that sync with their gold value, so if you, for example pickpocket that gold, the investor perk effects of speech perk stop to work and the merchant will keep his natural gold value.

But, i read around that you can reverse pickpocket, filling the merchant inventory with gold, but this sometimes work and sometimes don't work. My question is: can i do this before i use the perk with the merchant? Do i have a gold limit that, if i bypass, will break the merchant gold value?

[sdack]

引用自 Kamuizin：

gold value: the amount of max gold a mercant has that refresh from time to time.

I researched some info in the investor perk of the speech. Apparently when you invest into a Merchant NPC the 500 gold go to their personal inventory and that sync with their gold value, so if you, for example pickpocket that gold, the investor perk effects of speech perk stop to work and the merchant will keep his natural gold value.

But, i read around that you can reverse pickpocket, filling the merchant inventory with gold, but this sometimes work and sometimes don't work. My question is: can i do this before i use the perk with the merchant? Do i have a gold limit that, if i bypass, will break the merchant gold value?

I get that you are trying to get past some limitation, but what exactly is the final outcome of this, what is your "end-game" here? I fail to see the issue for a play-through.

[bLaCkShAd0w]

They use a signed interger to hold the data for gold value.

A signed int can represent a value of -32768 through to +32767

The problem is that they chose a signed int, there is no reason to store a negative gold value, if they chose unsigned you would be able to store 0-65535 in gold.

The only fix is changing the code in the engine via script extender.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/85285/

Never used the mod personally, but thats the only type of workaround. Not sure if there is an SSE version.

Edit: found one

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/77173

[sdack]

引用自 smr1957：

The above mod does NOT change this, as the gold limit is a game engine one - in fact, since the above mod increases the amount that merchants may have, it is actually more likely to induce the issue.

I do not see OP actually having a problem. He is trying to "brain hack" the game with pick-pocketing to get past an internal limitation. It has little to do with actually playing the game. There are plenty of merchants to trade with and when OP's original problem is for merchants to have more gold should he first make use of more than one merchant. If it is still a problem can he also increase their gold with the above mentioned mod. However, shoving gold into a merchant's inventory through pick-pocketing, only to get it back again through selling, is not something most people will find worth pursuing. It seems desperate, frankly.

[Kamuizin]

引用自 sdack：

引用自 Kamuizin：

gold value: the amount of max gold a mercant has that refresh from time to time.

I researched some info in the investor perk of the speech. Apparently when you invest into a Merchant NPC the 500 gold go to their personal inventory and that sync with their gold value, so if you, for example pickpocket that gold, the investor perk effects of speech perk stop to work and the merchant will keep his natural gold value.

But, i read around that you can reverse pickpocket, filling the merchant inventory with gold, but this sometimes work and sometimes don't work. My question is: can i do this before i use the perk with the merchant? Do i have a gold limit that, if i bypass, will break the merchant gold value?

I get that you are trying to get past some limitation, but what exactly is the final outcome of this, what is your "end-game" here? I fail to see the issue for a play-through.

I just want to understand how this work more specifically. No objective, no relation with my current or past playtroughts, just want to use the knowledge to plan better future plays.

引用自 sdack：

引用自 smr1957：

The above mod does NOT change this, as the gold limit is a game engine one - in fact, since the above mod increases the amount that merchants may have, it is actually more likely to induce the issue.

I do not see OP actually having a problem. He is trying to "brain hack" the game with pick-pocketing to get past an internal limitation. It has little to do with actually playing the game.

Yes, pretty much that. I'm not desperate or anything, neither i'm shouting here that it's right or wrong. I just read that this exist and now i want to understand it better, along with the 2 questions:

Can i invest in merchants via reverse pickpocket without the invest perk being used? With the perk i know this can be done with some merchants.

In either case, is there a gold limit for the reverse pocket?

[sdack]

引用自 Kamuizin：

... I just read that this exist and now i want to understand it better, along with the 2 questions:

Can i invest in merchants via reverse pickpocket without the invest perk being used? With the perk i know this can be done with some merchants.

In either case, is there a gold limit for the reverse pocket?

To quote from the wiki,

Trading with vendors becomes unreliable when their gold reserves exceeds 32,767. The game's internal trading mechanism mistakenly treats their gold quantity as a signed 16-bit integer, whose value could be between -32768 and 32767. If you buy a lot of expensive items or receive high-level skill training, so much so that their gold reserve goes beyond 32,767, an Integer overflow bug occurs. Thus, you can still sell them items, but you lose the item without gaining any gold. Complicating the matter is the fact that each vendor's gold reserve is the sum of gold in their inventory plus the gold in their chests.

A community-developed bug fix is available as a mod called "Barter Limit Fix."

Source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Merchants#Bugs

I interpret this as the bug being independent from perks and the inventory. You should be able to store 1,000,000 gold in a merchants inventory for example. What will be bugged is the actual trade dialogue itself. It should not assume a trader's maximum amount of gold could fit into a 16-bit integer, but at least use 32-bit for it, imo.

[bLaCkShAd0w]

I believe thats that the barter fix is actually doing.

The players gold is a 32 bit int aka dint, which is either 2.15 billion max signed, or 4.3 billion max unsigned, not sure which and really does it even matter at that quantity?

Someone made a decesion to severely limit merchant gold in the interest of saving memory? Probably for the consoles.