Reasons for a non-Nord to join the Stormcloaks.

[MadCrusader]

I can surprisingly come up with great reasons for my Breton character to fight with the Stormcloaks.
1:The Empire chose to appease the Aldmeri Dominion via the White-Gold Concordat.
2: The Thalmor are extreme elven supremacists who wish to enslave or kill all humans.
3: Their belief in elven racial purity means that, they won’t even accept Bretons as slaves, they’ll just kill them all.
4:The Nords need a reason to move past anti-magic sentiment, and a Breton Stormblade should be one of the best wake-up calls. The elves can’t be allowed to have a monopoly on magic.

[Heimdall313]

I've done Breton Stormcloak battlemage before. Galmar and Ulfric don't actually mind. There's initial skepticism from Galmar, and considering how ah, politically intriguing Bretons are, its a healthy skepticism. They never accuse you of being Forsworn, or even really talk about them unless you ask Ulfric about the Markarth Incident.
I can't recall Galmar or Ulfric having any sanction or ban on mages in their ranks; Nords are generally not fond of magic due to millenia of conflict with Elven mages since they came over from Atmora. So if he's rallying Nords, yeah he's going to have a lot of guys that are better with an axe than a staff. Just because he doesn't have any mages in his corner generally speaking, there's not actually a reason to assume he's against it. There's no Stormcloaks in Heavy Armor either but I don't think he's opposed to heavy armor lol.
Nords have worked with Breton wizards before, Tiber Septim's history with Pale Pass touches on this. In fact there's probably more cooperation between Nords and Bretons than conflict. Ever hear any Nord in Skyrim complain about Bretons that weren't Forsworn?

If you guys are jumping to wild conclusions about racial purity stuff that literally is not supported in the game or lore, I suggest the possibility that maybe, just maybe, there could exist a genuine nationalist that doesn't want to violently genocide the planet in the most maniacally evil way(s) imaginable? A more intelligent, moderate assumption, perhaps?
Ulfric is more likely to ally with Hammerfell and even House Redoran than he is to hunt down and skin every last Khajiit in the country. Hell, he'd probably ally right back to the Empire if the Thalmor invaded again. He's not insane, he's not genocidal, he has legitimate grievances and legitimate criticisms of the Empire and the hand-picked "High King".

The Thalmor can credibly be accused of racial supremacy, and probably would re-institute some form of slavery if they conquered the empire, but Ulfric cannot be credibly accused of any of this.

[theo]

Ulfric does have a court mage

Originally posted by Heimdall313:

The Thalmor can credibly be accused of racial supremacy, and probably would re-institute some form of slavery if they conquered the empire

Based on what?

[MadCrusader]

Originally posted by Heimdall313:

I've done Breton Stormcloak battlemage before. Galmar and Ulfric don't actually mind. There's initial skepticism from Galmar, and considering how ah, politically intriguing Bretons are, its a healthy skepticism. They never accuse you of being Forsworn, or even really talk about them unless you ask Ulfric about the Markarth Incident.
I can't recall Galmar or Ulfric having any sanction or ban on mages in their ranks; Nords are generally not fond of magic due to millenia of conflict with Elven mages since they came over from Atmora. So if he's rallying Nords, yeah he's going to have a lot of guys that are better with an axe than a staff. Just because he doesn't have any mages in his corner generally speaking, there's not actually a reason to assume he's against it. There's no Stormcloaks in Heavy Armor either but I don't think he's opposed to heavy armor lol.
Nords have worked with Breton wizards before, Tiber Septim's history with Pale Pass touches on this. In fact there's probably more cooperation between Nords and Bretons than conflict. Ever hear any Nord in Skyrim complain about Bretons that weren't Forsworn?

If you guys are jumping to wild conclusions about racial purity stuff that literally is not supported in the game or lore, I suggest the possibility that maybe, just maybe, there could exist a genuine nationalist that doesn't want to violently genocide the planet in the most maniacally evil way(s) imaginable? A more intelligent, moderate assumption, perhaps?
Ulfric is more likely to ally with Hammerfell and even House Redoran than he is to hunt down and skin every last Khajiit in the country. Hell, he'd probably ally right back to the Empire if the Thalmor invaded again. He's not insane, he's not genocidal, he has legitimate grievances and legitimate criticisms of the Empire and the hand-picked "High King".

The Thalmor can credibly be accused of racial supremacy, and probably would re-institute some form of slavery if they conquered the empire, but Ulfric cannot be credibly accused of any of this.

Bretons would like elves and men to coexist peacefully. Last I read, they still have Direnni cousins and ancestors living on the Isle of Balfiera. The Aldmeri Dominion is the biggest threat to this. They want all humans either dead or living under their heel, they’ll persecute other elves for not being racist, and anyone with mixed elf and man blood is just gonna be killed and incinerated. And the Empire’s current strategy is to appease the Dominion, restrict mens’ religious freedom, and let Thalmor death squads patrol their lands and abduct free men in the dead of night. The worst bigotry the average Stormcloak shows is calling the beastfolk cats and lizards.

[FauxFurry]

Originally posted by SerraShaar:

where there is war, there is money to make. Gold is always a good reason to join idiots.

That reason works well for Khajiit merchants who are not interested in citizenship in the first place. The Dragonborn can be a merchant of death as well as fine goods so they fall well within that category of cat.

[SgtScum]

Great writeups gentlemen. This turned out to be a rather nice bit of background lore.

[Fitness Lauch]

There are barely any other than getting revenge by all means for the failed execution in the beginning or if you are an agent for the dominion/thalmor and want to weaken the empire.

What really breaks the Stormcloaks for me is that they brutally attack Whiterun, so I'd be forced to slay the people who I've fought alongside against the first dragon and who treat me as a hero and look up to me.

But to be honest... I usually ignore the civil questline in 95% of my playthroughs because of how boring, unrewarding and linear it is. It would be cool if there would be more options (like becoming king by yourself instead of having to choose between an idiot and a racist) and if the factions would fight against each other (like capture towns, having battles on the map, maybe even finishing the war if you wait too long before you join one side). I think that the characters are very badly written, Ulfric is totally unlikeable, so are the Thalmor and the empire leaders are just dumb (like the empire queen who wants to send out her army to Dragons Bridge because of some minor inconvenience).

[Shadow]

The Stormcloaks have mead.

[SerraShaar]

The best path of course is to kill the Stormcloak. And then everyone else, then take over Skyrim :P

[MadCrusader]

Originally posted by Fitness Lauch:

What really breaks the Stormcloaks for me is that they brutally attack Whiterun, so I'd be forced to slay the people who I've fought alongside against the first dragon and who treat me as a hero and look up to me.

Fair point, your moral dilemma is that you have to choose between betraying Jarl Balgruuf and his well-earned loyal subjects, or opening up more Imperial territory for the Thalmor death squads to come for innocent people over the gods they worship.

[psychotron666]

Originally posted by MadCrusader:

Originally posted by Fitness Lauch:

What really breaks the Stormcloaks for me is that they brutally attack Whiterun, so I'd be forced to slay the people who I've fought alongside against the first dragon and who treat me as a hero and look up to me.

Fair point, your moral dilemma is that you have to choose between betraying Jarl Balgruuf and his well-earned loyal subjects, or opening up more Imperial territory for the Thalmor death squads to come for innocent people over the gods they worship.

There's a guy ranting and raving about and openly worshipping Talos in the middle of Whiterun - imperial territory - and nobody touches him or bothers him. Nor is the Talos shrine removed.

[MadCrusader]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

Originally posted by MadCrusader:

Fair point, your moral dilemma is that you have to choose between betraying Jarl Balgruuf and his well-earned loyal subjects, or opening up more Imperial territory for the Thalmor death squads to come for innocent people over the gods they worship.

There's a guy ranting and raving about and openly worshipping Talos in the middle of Whiterun - imperial territory - and nobody touches him or bothers him. Nor is the Talos shrine removed.

I read that was actually a bug. That the Thalmor are actually supposed to come for Heimskr.

[theo]

For one reason or another Thalmor isn't even in Solitude, I suppose the concordat doesn't allow stationing in imperial cities

[FauxFurry]

Originally posted by theo:

For one reason or another Thalmor isn't even in Solitude, I suppose the concordat doesn't allow stationing in imperial cities

There is a Thalmor Headquarters in Solitude but like so much in the released game, much content was cut from it including the Thalmor themselves.

[CEPHY]

Or, to put in the words of Senile Scribbles:

"If you want strength and unity, you join the empire.
If you wanna ♥♥♥♥ your sister you join the lamecloaks"

and I sure like my sister.



/s

[MadCrusader]

Originally posted by CEPHY:

Or, to put in the words of Senile Scribbles:

"If you want strength and unity, you join the empire.
If you wanna ♥♥♥♥ your sister you join the lamecloaks"

and I sure like my sister.



/s

I beg to retort for the other side of the coin. If you like strength and independence join the Stormcloaks.
If you like bending over for elf ♥♥♥♥, join the Empire.