Madanach is an inferior person

[Meat]

And no you shouldn't feel shame for being nord

[CEPHY]

Eh, I usually just walk up to Borgul, beat him up, and then murder Madanach and leave in like 3 minutes.

[Ihateeverybody]

As you delve into the lore. You will find that everyone and I mean EVERYONE as been the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that ♥♥♥♥ on all creation at one point or another in time and space.

[Ihateeverybody]

Publicado originalmente por alexander_dougherty:

Publicado originalmente por lizrdfishr:

Are Nords colonialists or immigrants?

Nords were there first, the Forsworn are a degenerate Breton subrace.... they started out as Bretons, but their ancestors used a type of Bloodmagic and became corrupted (I believe this was shown in ESO)

Both have brutalised the other at various points in history, neither is entirely in the right either.

Actually the Falmer were there before either. At least this Kalpa. But again. No one is native to Tamriel. They all came from else where (not meaning Elswhyr) and some else when.

[alexander_dougherty]

Publicado originalmente por Ihateeverybody:

Publicado originalmente por alexander_dougherty:

Nords were there first, the Forsworn are a degenerate Breton subrace.... they started out as Bretons, but their ancestors used a type of Bloodmagic and became corrupted (I believe this was shown in ESO)

Both have brutalised the other at various points in history, neither is entirely in the right either.

Actually the Falmer were there before either. At least this Kalpa. But again. No one is native to Tamriel. They all came from else where (not meaning Elswhyr) and some else when.

Yes the Falmer were there before the Nords, but I was using a comparative rather than an absolute.
And as for nobody being native to Tamriel, there may have been races who evolved there, Kothringi, Imga and others..... But Bethesda has never stated whether they evolved on Tamriel or not, just that the Altmer ruled them in the first Era.

[FauxFurry]

You can help out Madanach up until the point where you get the Armor of Old Gods, After that point, you can literally stab him in the back.

[Meat]

Publicado originalmente por FauxFurry:

You can help out Madanach up until the point where you get the Armor of Old Gods, After that point, you can literally stab him in the back.

MEHH just kill him and then escape i don't need his stupid armor

[gondlyr]

When using Alternate Start I started the game as a Forsworn. So of course I had to help my King escape. But Madanach never made it out of Markarth alive. But I did get Armor of the Old Gods which was an improvement over what I started with.

[Space is the Place]

There´s something I never understoof about this quest, what´s the angle of Thonar Silver-Blood or Nepos??

I swear I´ve made that quest like 6 times in my life and I´m never quite clear about what those guys were up to or ganing from anything related to this quest.

[Ihateeverybody]

Publicado originalmente por Space is the Place:

There´s something I never understoof about this quest, what´s the angle of Thonar Silver-Blood or Nepos??

I swear I´ve made that quest like 6 times in my life and I´m never quite clear about what those guys were up to or ganing from anything related to this quest.

As much as I can understand and there is no reason I am correct in any way They use the forsworn to undermine the Jarl, destabelize the region and take over (See town where they have the forsworn attack and then send mercs to "drive off" the forsworn and then demand the owner sell them the land. "That sure is a nice mine/farm you have there. Be a shame if something happened to it. It's called Extortion in many cultures (well two)

In his defense, the silverblood who hangs out in the palace area is likely a true stormcloak believer. His brother that runs the buisiness is a total greedy ass.

[Von Faustien]

the most famous Nord in modern history was actually a breton. suck you snow sucking barbarians and accept Tiber septim was an elf blooded manmer and closer geneticly to a reachman.

Publicado originalmente por alexander_dougherty:

Publicado originalmente por Ihateeverybody:

Actually the Falmer were there before either. At least this Kalpa. But again. No one is native to Tamriel. They all came from else where (not meaning Elswhyr) and some else when.

Yes the Falmer were there before the Nords, but I was using a comparative rather than an absolute.
And as for nobody being native to Tamriel, there may have been races who evolved there, Kothringi, Imga and others..... But Bethesda has never stated whether they evolved on Tamriel or not, just that the Altmer ruled them in the first Era.

I think the Jist of it is everyone is dcended from the orginal "mortal" race formed by the trapped aderic sprits the Elnofay which than broke off into the old Elnofay and wandering elnofay and than from that into the Aldmer, nedic and atmoran races and by extension the modern derivatives.

but it get fuzzy when the redgaurd/Yokudans are decended from the elnofay but also aperently a left over from a prior version of the universe as a druges (proablu butchered that but the crab octopus monsters) and the Hist.

you also have ♥♥♥♥ like the Bosmer and Khajitt suposedly sharing a common ancestor that was a chaos slim monsters before Azura and Yiffri gave them forms making it questionable on if the wood elves are really elves or if the Khajitt are elves and not a beast race

Argonians are the only race we have a clear origin for. the Hist basically decided they wanted hands and bio engineered a slave race of lizard people to prune branches and keep pests of there swamp by using some none sapient animal they found as a base.

[Ihateeverybody]

I don't have the attention span for any of that so I just view everyone (and everything) as its own individual being where they are graded soley on how much of a pain in my ass they are.

Ratings are from Delephine (maximum) to Meeko (Minimum). Delephine Keeps me from progressing the Main Quest (I refuse to even talk to her anymore). Meeko I never have to encounter or interact with at all.

[Space is the Place]

Publicado originalmente por Ihateeverybody:

As much as I can understand and there is no reason I am correct in any way They use the forsworn to undermine the Jarl, destabelize the region and take over (See town where they have the forsworn attack and then send mercs to "drive off" the forsworn and then demand the owner sell them the land. "That sure is a nice mine/farm you have there. Be a shame if something happened to it. It's called Extortion in many cultures (well two)

In his defense, the silverblood who hangs out in the palace area is likely a true stormcloak believer. His brother that runs the buisiness is a total greedy ass.

Ok but then the Jarl doesn´t really care about the result of the quest. In fact, regardless of that choice, the only thing he cares if that you bring him his ancestor shield and then you can buy a house in Markarth. If I recall correctly he doesn´t even adress this quest.

Neepo is using Madanach to "control" the mine and scare the Jarl and Thonar... ok, why though? what´s his benefit beyond the fact he´s sided with the Forsworm because he´s one of them?

Why Thonar is so antagonistic during the quest and then in the end he´s suddenly friendly?

Maybe it´sthe fact that Skyrim allows fordialogue to happen in realtime, which was amazing, but also makes me pay less atention or something, but Madanach to me is the only one that makes sense in this questin the sense that it´s clear what he wants.

I think Bethesda wanted to make this huge quest but in the end they chicken out, and an event that should deeply affect the future of Markarth and all it´s citizen, in the end it only amounts to a few dead guards, Thonar dying or surviving with no real weight either way, and a couple of Orc NPC that always attack if you end the mission while they are working near the mine exit.

[Ihateeverybody]

Silverbloods want to take over the Reach. They employ a good number of the people in the reach. They are the financial strength of the region. They own mines and farms. They control the wealth and livlihood of most.

They have Madanach (A prominant if not THE prominant Leader of the Reachman) imprisoned. They use the Forsworn to create strife through Neepo. Threats to Madanach are likely the means. Do this or we will your king. Mercanaries show up at your farm or mine and the Forsworn run away. Then they say sell your land to the Silverbloods.

Obviously the Jarl cannot prove any of this or act against them (they have the guards bribed and in their pocket).

So when you bust out with Madanach, Thongir will be aggro. If you side AGAINST The Forsworn at that point he will of course reward you.

Not saying it wasn't badly written. It was. Most quests were. VERY SIMPLISTIC with little to no choice. I am not defending the writing.

[alexander_dougherty]

Skyrim's writing has less nuance than Oblivion and Morrowind (and of course Oblivion has less nuance than Morrowind, but Morrowind was paranoid and political (internal political not real world political))

[Space is the Place]

Publicado originalmente por Ihateeverybody:

Not saying it wasn't badly written. It was. Most quests were. VERY SIMPLISTIC with little to no choice. I am not defending the writing.

I guess that´s my problem, I just hardly pay attention to most Skyrim quests because they are badly written. I wish they realize with ESO having writters and getting praised for their quests that Bethesda should have never fire all writters and make their quest designers full writters or "lore masters"; we need people who can understand how to present ideas, Skyrim has tons of concept ideas but they are very badly portrait and characters dialogue is soooo bad for the most part.

Publicado originalmente por alexander_dougherty:

(and of course Oblivion has less nuance than Morrowind, but Morrowind was paranoid and political (internal political not real world political))

Disagreed. Morrowind had a very cool main quests that takes way to long in firing up, but aside from the lore most sidequests and factions were quite boring. Oblivion is the best written TES main series game: the best Daedric quests, the best factions, the best sidequests, the best DLC... Yeah the main quests is not as good as Morrowind, but still is not bad and like I said anything else is superior. Think of the best quests ever in the series, 90% of them will be from Oblivion.