Skyrim: Is Conjuration the evil school of magic?

[MadCrusader]

I've always wondered for RP purposes, is conjuration evil. I always play a good (often zealously so) character like a priest or paladin, the former of which is best for me in Skyrim, and I was wondering if there's any way this magic school fits in.

[MadCrusader]

Originally posted by fmalfeas:

Conjuration is really iffy much of the time.

It /can/ be used to summon natural spirits. But that's *hard*.

Daedra are easy to summon though.

Also easy is sending soul bits to the Ideal Masters so you can command the dead.

BTW - know why Bound Weapons look like glowing, translucent versions of Daedric weapons? It's because they're Daedra summoned up and bound into the shape of the weapon.

But you also have to remember that not all Daedra are bad. Meridia is overall pretty good for the mortal races, and is the ultimate foe of the undead (making her the permanent enemy of both the Ideal Masters and Molag Bal). Azura is generally pretty cool too, though if you provoke her too much, she can curse an entire subrace (which is why the Dark Elves are how they are.)

So basically, Conjuration is the school of magic that is most likely to result in evil, but it doesn't have to. Runners up are Illusion and Destruction, as mind control is pretty horrific, and blowing things up is very bad in the wrong hands.

You also know that many Daedra are bad when a Prince named “Clavicus Vile” isn’t even the most vile Daedric Prince. Far from it!

[th]

Originally posted by Valden21:

That's a slippery slope, IMO. After all, Enchanting is highly dependent on Conjuration, as Enchanting requires the use of a Conjuration spell, Soul Trap. This is because enchanting any item requires the use of a soul gem, and filling those is impossible without the Soul Trap spell. By the same logic taken to an extreme, this means that Enchanting would also have to be considered evil, all because of 1 spell. Sound illogical? Yes, but it's that exact train of logic that in-universe anti-magic fanatics would use to achieve their goals.

Good point. I see Enchanting exactly as you've described it. It's indeed a questionable practice - to capture souls. It's some kind of greater form of slavery.

I could say even more. The entire universe of The Elder Scrools always looked for me as a really dark one. May be not as dark as Sanctuary (Diablo universe) for example. But still rather dark. There are a lot of reasons for that. The list is so long that I actually don't even want to start it.

[Senor Cinco]

Originally posted by MadCrusader:

Originally posted by Señor Cinco:

Yes it's evil! In fact, it's appallingly disgusting, I tell you!

...the sheer notion of raising the dead really sets my dandruff on fire.

Not just raising the dead! Trapping souls of living beings and summoning God knows what from the pits of Hell.

From the PITS!
It's preposterous. That's why I don't hang around with those kinds of people.
If you summon in my hood, it better be a damn taxi.

[Fear2288]

I’ve always viewed it as another type of magic, though when it’s used to summon daedra or for Necromantic purposes, then it begins to tread into “evil” waters.

Not really sure what John up there is talking about, necromancy is viewed as “evil” across the board in the TES world…pretty sure after what went down with Mannimarco and the Psijiic Order, necromancy is pretty much “outlawed” by any collective of mages in Tamriel.

As far as soul trapping goes, it seems to be “acceptable” to soul trap and use the souls of animals, just not humanoids.

[4K_240hz_MLED]

Originally posted by fmalfeas:

BTW - know why Bound Weapons look like glowing, translucent versions of Daedric weapons? It's because they're Daedra summoned up and bound into the shape of the weapon.

Nah Bethesda just wanted it to look cool and distinguish it from regular weapons. Bound weapons in Oblivion looked identical to regular Daedric weapons

[MadCrusader]

The words “necromancy” and “inhumanity” should mean the same thing to you.

[MadCrusader]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

I’ve always viewed it as another type of magic, though when it’s used to summon daedra or for Necromantic purposes, then it begins to tread into “evil” waters.

Not really sure what John up there is talking about, necromancy is viewed as “evil” across the board in the TES world…pretty sure after what went down with Mannimarco and the Psijiic Order, necromancy is pretty much “outlawed” by any collective of mages in Tamriel.

As far as soul trapping goes, it seems to be “acceptable” to soul trap and use the souls of animals, just not humanoids.

The College of Winterhold has a disgusting tolerance of necromancy, as revealed by the Conjuration teacher there.

[Valden21]

Originally posted by th:

Originally posted by Valden21:

That's a slippery slope, IMO. After all, Enchanting is highly dependent on Conjuration, as Enchanting requires the use of a Conjuration spell, Soul Trap. This is because enchanting any item requires the use of a soul gem, and filling those is impossible without the Soul Trap spell. By the same logic taken to an extreme, this means that Enchanting would also have to be considered evil, all because of 1 spell. Sound illogical? Yes, but it's that exact train of logic that in-universe anti-magic fanatics would use to achieve their goals.

Good point. I see Enchanting exactly as you've described it. It's indeed a questionable practice - to capture souls. It's some kind of greater form of slavery.

I could say even more. The entire universe of The Elder Scrools always looked for me as a really dark one. May be not as dark as Sanctuary (Diablo universe) for example. But still rather dark. There are a lot of reasons for that. The list is so long that I actually don't even want to start it.

That wasn't my point at all. What I meant was that if Conjuration is viewed as evil, then the same must follow for Enchantment because its use requires a specific Conjuration spell; but Enchanting happens to be one of the most useful and potentially necessary school of magic in the setting. Both Farengar and Cacelmo have Arcane Enchanters in their labs and sell soul gems; does that make them evil? Is Enchanting evil because of that one Conjuration spell? To both questions, I would say "No". At best, it's accusation without evidence. At worst, it opens the door to outright in-universe bans on magic, and that has the potential to harm EVERYONE.

[th]

Originally posted by Valden21:

That wasn't my point at all.

I got that you've expressed a point you actually disagree with. But the point itself is a good one for roleplaying purposes for those who want to play ideally "good guys". Or for those who want to play characters with some hate to the magic for whatever reason.

[Fear2288]

Originally posted by MadCrusader:

Originally posted by Fear2288:

I’ve always viewed it as another type of magic, though when it’s used to summon daedra or for Necromantic purposes, then it begins to tread into “evil” waters.

Not really sure what John up there is talking about, necromancy is viewed as “evil” across the board in the TES world…pretty sure after what went down with Mannimarco and the Psijiic Order, necromancy is pretty much “outlawed” by any collective of mages in Tamriel.

As far as soul trapping goes, it seems to be “acceptable” to soul trap and use the souls of animals, just not humanoids.

The College of Winterhold has a disgusting tolerance of necromancy, as revealed by the Conjuration teacher there.

Been awhile since I did the College questline admittedly. Yeah, the College seems to have a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy concerning necromancy.

Phineas remarks that the anti-necromancy sentiments died out with the Mage’s Guild, but he’s also clearly bias on the subject.

Most of the rest of the TES world circa Skyrim seems to still view it as “evil” but the College appears to tolerate it to some degree as long as any necromantic studies are being done behind closed doors and the “public” perception remains that the College is against it.

[fmalfeas]

Originally posted by <N/A>:

Originally posted by fmalfeas:

BTW - know why Bound Weapons look like glowing, translucent versions of Daedric weapons? It's because they're Daedra summoned up and bound into the shape of the weapon.

Nah Bethesda just wanted it to look cool and distinguish it from regular weapons. Bound weapons in Oblivion looked identical to regular Daedric weapons

And in Oblivion, the lore was the same. They're Daedra, shaped into weapon forms by the summoning spell. Whether they're solid looking or translucent doesn't change that.

[alexander_dougherty]

Is Conjuration Evil???
With a capital E.....

First off Soul Trap is at best neutral in morality, if you use it to soul trap people, even bandits, than that's an evil act.

Second actually conjuring, if you conjure Undead it's debatable if you are worsening the Undeads situation or just using it (the first is evil the second is neutral). If you summon Daedra they clearly do not like it, various Daedra stated as much in Oblivion.... so that's clearly an evil act, just a matter of how evil. Nobody knows if Atronachs care if they are summoned, but it's hard to argue that it's an act of good....
Likewise it's debatable whether Daedra care to be banished..... I personally guess not....

So at best it's neutral in terms of morality (that's where you only use non-evil spells) and at worst utterly Evil (again with a Capital E for emphasis)

[SpeedFreak1972]

Well as for summoning bound weapons is evil it's debatable, because according to lore you summon a daedra in bound weapon form.

[seal cub clubbing club]

i just like the smells :3

[MadCrusader]

Originally posted by John:

There is no evil school, even necromancy, is just a tool to be used. If you are going for a Death Knight or something, yeah you prolly should go for some necromancy, but in general nothing is really good or evil. I guess the most dubious skill tree would be pickpocket, second prolly lockpicking, other than those questionable ones nothing even comes close.

The skills I actually hate most tbh are the stealth builds, no honor in them, and they’re FAR WORSE in multiplayer games. I’m of the same mind as Tsun, mages are just as good and honorable as warriors, but sneaky thieves and assassins can get ♥♥♥♥♥♥.