Does anyone play without exploiting the Fortify Alchemy/Enchantment loop?

[Lampros]

If yes, can you still feasibly do harder difficulties without it? By this loop I mean what the author of the Alchemy Potions and Food Adjustments mod describes as follows:

"Because you can craft Fortify Enchanting potions and create items with a Fortify Alchemy enchantment, there is a (limited) way to take advantage of these effects by looping them: create a potion, then better enchantments with that potion, then a better potion with those enchantments, then even better enchantments with that new potion, and so on."

The aforementioned mod gives you the toggle option to turn it off, and I am going to do it, as the standard crafting gimmicks are a bit too over-powered and feel "cheaty."

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/5877

[HazakTheMad]

I don't and still can keep up.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by HazakTheMad:

I don't and still can keep up.

Do you not bother with crafting at all - or do you just avoid the loop? Since I have yet to get to maxing all crafting skills, I don't know what the power difference is between exploit/loop crafted gear versus "normal" crafted gear versus dropped gear with no crafting enhancements at all.

[Ilja]

In my games I always craft most stuff myself, unless I am restricting myself for character story reasons. Never used those loops. The are patched away from my game anyway.

I don't see any point, seeing that protagonist is practically a demigod and armor caps (etc.) are somewhat easy to reach in the end.

People are most often trying to make the game harder and not easier.

[TRUNK MONKEY]

i dont but i like to get to max level from fair methods like 41 to 44 percent better on each armor peice and the cap limit without the loop for enchanting and smithing potions

[jreese46]

As long as you are maxing your skills and taking the relevant perks, using the best crafting enchantments and potions that you can legitimately make, you can one or two hit kill just about anything in the game without bothering with the restoration loop.

[DragonMaster]

I don't use the fortify enchantment loops or any others like that that make it where you can I hit the enemy and the battle is over with. I do mine my own ores and make my own gear and enchant it. This includes my Armor, weapons and potions. I just upgraded my equipment for the first time and I'm level 25. Short on cash right now due to the fact that I don't pick up a lot of the stuff that is worth less than 200 septims. So there are times for which my gold pouch is light. And in cases where the coin pouch is light I had to a mine and mine some ore and either sell the ore or smelt it and make weapons and armor and sell it.

[HazakTheMad]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by HazakTheMad:

I don't and still can keep up.

Do you not bother with crafting at all - or do you just avoid the loop? Since I have yet to get to maxing all crafting skills, I don't know what the power difference is between exploit/loop crafted gear versus "normal" crafted gear versus dropped gear with no crafting enhancements at all.

I always craft, but I haven't done the loop.
Smithing has always been a thing I love in games.

[DragonMaster]

Originally posted by HazakTheMad:

Originally posted by Lampros:

Do you not bother with crafting at all - or do you just avoid the loop? Since I have yet to get to maxing all crafting skills, I don't know what the power difference is between exploit/loop crafted gear versus "normal" crafted gear versus dropped gear with no crafting enhancements at all.

I always craft, but I haven't done the loop.
Smithing has always been a thing I love in games.

You and me bot it makes things more interesting for me at least. I guess that is why I love the house mods for which you have to build.

[jerrypocalypse]

Never used the cheese method and manage fine on even Master

[HazakTheMad]

Originally posted by jerrypocalypse:

Never used the cheese method and manage fine on even Master

Sheogorath is not pleased.

[Insane]

On level 50 you can get an item with 80% magic regeneration speed, which is impossible to create without potions. Since vanilla supports 80% magic regeneration on leveled items, that mean that you actually supposed to use enchanting potions to get that much of a effect, which proves - it was designed that way for a player to use. Because you can get such powerful item from a leveled list, it mean that your enchanting and alchemy should be even better, because these perks should worth something, right? Otherwise you could just buy stuf from vendors, right?

So that's from where problem really starts. Look at how many perks you just waisted for enchanting and alchemy, yet you can actually buy things at the same quality as if you crafted it yourself. So design phylosophy here is that you supposed to make even better one. Which again proves that it was intended, as broken it may seems. There are certain play styles where it become absolutely broken - any warrior or assassin playthrough. And certain play styles where it become absolutely necessary - any mage playthrough. It's only up to you how you can limit yourself in this. But then remember, there are things like pickaxe from High Hrotgar which increases your smithing (the only 5th item being a weapon in game that is able to increase smithing), and things like well famous set of heavy armor that gives you +10 to enchanting. See where it goes?

The only real issue was a restoration potion exploit which was fixed in USSEP, used by most people here, including me.

Personally i tend to create x4 good items for alchemy and x4 good items for smithing and that's about it. I don't do loops in one moment, but will make these items better with time by natural progression. And in the end the loop is limited anyway. Since i am a mage, it's extremely important for me to increase alchemy. Even more so, than enchanting or smithing. But i don't wont to bother with this loop more than once at time. So it will take a long time for me to reach limit. If i need to.

If you don't want that thing to be utterly broken. Stop using any other mods that changes potions or alchemy all together. Don't use Frostfall or campfire, because these will add new slots in game which can be enchanted and will broke balance to the point of no return. There are only 4 items to enchant for alchemy or smithing (except unique pickaxe), that's a rule of vanilla. If you can do more - balance be ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[DragonMaster]

Originally posted by HazakTheMad:

Originally posted by jerrypocalypse:

Never used the cheese method and manage fine on even Master

Sheogorath is not pleased.

I was thinking this and you had to go there

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Ilja:

In my games I always craft most stuff myself, unless I am restricting myself for character story reasons. Never used those loops. The are patched away from my game anyway.

I don't see any point, seeing that protagonist is practically a demigod and armor caps (etc.) are somewhat easy to reach in the end.

People are most often trying to make the game harder and not easier. :LaughingOwlcat:

Yes, I recall that my characters in Oldrim felt over-powered when using looped crafted gear. So I wanted to use a mod that closed off the loop completely to save myself even from the temptation. I am slightly worried, however, since I have a few mods that increase the difficulty as well. I guess I will start the new playthrough at normal difficulty though, so it should not be too hard.

Originally posted by マッドハッター:

That's not an exploit, that's the correct mechanics. It's capped.

Surely you mean the fortify restoration glitch exploit ???

No, the Restoration loop is patched in the community patch - which I use. So I meant the Fortify Alchemy/Enchantment loop. It may be "intended," but it still feels cheaty! ;)

Originally posted by マッドハッター:

25% versus 32% for alchemy/enchant loop
no big deal

So it's only a 7 percent difference? I didn't realize that! Still, there is a Korean adage that goes: "Dust collected becomes a mountain"! ;)

Originally posted by HazakTheMad:

I always craft, but I haven't done the loop.
Smithing has always been a thing I love in games.

Got it - and me too about the crafting love! ;)

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Insane:

On level 50 you can get an item with 80% magic regeneration speed, which is impossible to create without potions. Since vanilla supports 80% magic regeneration on leveled items, that mean that you actually supposed to use enchanting potions to get that much of a effect, which proves - it was designed that way for a player to use. Because you can get such powerful item from a leveled list, it mean that your enchanting and alchemy should be even better, because these perks should worth something, right? Otherwise you could just buy stuf from vendors, right?

Sorry; I missed this post earlier, and I confess I cannot agree. Two fundamental differences. First, yes, it is okay if crafted gear is better than dropped gear. The issue, however, is the degree. The gap between the two should not be as wide as it is currently. Second, while I agree that it is okay if crafted gear is slightly better, there should be exceptions. Certainly, at least divine artifacts should be on par with the best crafted gear; and they are not even close.

[LEGACY]

I play with the Requiem mod. There is no loop.
Can't craft fortify enchanting potions because the ingredients that had that mod had it replaced with something else.

Best fortify enchanting potion available (found or at vendor) is 5%.
Same goes for fortify smithing.