Imperial vs stormcloak lore wise?

[Richard I]

I plan on having two characters.

My current one, is a (mostly) noble nord warrior. Likes to attack hands on with a sword and shield.

He is currently sided with the stormcloaks, but I can switch. I’m not sure though.


I plan on having a second playthrough as a different species, with a dishonorable, thriving play style. Sneaky. Dual weapons, aggressive. Would this be a better fit for rebels? Or maybe an imperial secret weapon?


I just think the noble nord warrior is more traditional, as is the imperial legion

[Incariuz]

Imperial is the smarter option for long term war efforts against the Thalmor, as Stormcloaks winning causes more military division in the long term, but... Stormcloaks are more honourable? In their war for the rights and freedoms of their people. That's how I look at it at least. Which side I pick all depends on my character. If yours is one who fights for honour, and your people, you go Stormcloak. However if you're intelligent, and all about victory at any cost, you go Imperial.

[jreese46]

Originally posted by Incariuz:

Imperial is the smarter option for long term war efforts against the Thalmor, as Stormcloaks winning causes more military division in the long term, but... Stormcloaks are more honourable? In their war for the rights and freedoms of their people. That's how I look at it at least. Which side I pick all depends on my character. If yours is one who fights for honour, and your people, you go Stormcloak. However if you're intelligent, and all about victory at any cost, you go Imperial.

When you say "victory," do you mean the Stormcloaks are beaten and the Thalmor are still free to roam the province and arrest, imprison, torture, and kill the citizens, with absolute impunity?

[lizrdfishr]

Third option. Don't join either.

If you don't join either side, no cities get attacked and you can trade with both armies.

Since there is no elected high-king of Skyrim, who is the legitimate leader of the Imperials? Tullius reports to the High King of Skyrim. Elesif has not been elected to the job.

Ulfric is an ass but he defeated Torygg the High King in a fair duel both agreed to. Does that make Ulfric the new high king or do the Jarls still need to decide in a moot?

I figure, I don't know and it's not my job to decide. That decision belongs to the people.

I play as an adventurer and as a merchant and haven't joined either side. I hit the Thalmor and strip them clean, upgrade the swag in my smithy and sell it to the good people of Skyrim for profit and the benefit of everyone.

The enemy are the Thalmor, not the young people in either army.

Free Skyrim. ;)

[Experica]

I would say imperial are slightly better because at least they are not xenophobic as the stormcloak who are apparently is racist to all other races?

[jreese46]

Originally posted by |42Cdo|Sharpkiller:

I would say imperial are slightly better because at least they are not xenophobic as the stormcloak who are apparently is racist to all other races?

Not sure. You should probably ask the Khajiit inside Solitude.

[Experica]

but its only khajiit caravan not all other race. khajiit iirc has a valid reason because of their reputation of selling skooma/stolen goods, which led to one bad apple affecting the rest of others? khajiit is allowed in and you rarely find any because they seldom to migrate to skyrim due to being too cold for them.

[lizrdfishr]

The Imperials will kill people to enforce a law made by another empire banning a religion. Ulfric gives sanctuary to the Dunmer.

Neither is any better than the other.

[FauxFurry]

Originally posted by Incariuz:

Imperial is the smarter option for long term war efforts against the Thalmor, as Stormcloaks winning causes more military division in the long term, but... Stormcloaks are more honourable? In their war for the rights and freedoms of their people. That's how I look at it at least. Which side I pick all depends on my character. If yours is one who fights for honour, and your people, you go Stormcloak. However if you're intelligent, and all about victory at any cost, you go Imperial.

I always tended to view it as an Honor Before Reason vs Reason Before Honor set-up myself.
An independent Skyrim will be less likely to fight off the Aldmeri Dominion without the help of the Dragon-Born in the fullness of their power (being able to call dragons as well as storms, bend the will of others and take on the aspect of a dragon themselves) but allowing Skyrim the right to self-determination is the honorable thing to do. For a non-Nord Dragon-Born, I tend to see it as them giving the land back to the Nords as a gift.

The Empire is a nearly vestigial vassal to the Thalmor who have allowed them to run roughshod over the people of Skyrim but once hostilities start up again, so long as they have leaders like Tullius who are able to act independently of Titus Mede, the Empire stands a much better chance of repelling the Thalmor with or without any Dragon-Born.

[ladyeternity]

Thing is both sides make me cringe but honor-wise I go Stormcloak if I am a Nord.

Ulfric is a tool. It's easy to see. Galmar Stone-Fist is the one wielding the tool. I am unsure if it's because Galmar is a puppet himself (for the Thalmor) or just a Nord-only Zealot using Talos to motivate Ulfric.

Windhelm seems to be racist. But I have noted the 'racism' in Windhelm goes both ways. The Darkelves state plainly "why should they help the nords?" And if questioned about the murders they basically say that they will get involved only if a Darkelf is murdered and it's "not their fight". In-turn Ulfric it seems only sends help out to nord caravan's and towns. So I dunno. I think both are in the wrong. If the Darkelves want to be treated like citizens then maybe they should stand up and BE citizens. And if the Nords want the Darkelves to show their worth and actually LIVE in Windhelm then they need to step up and treat them with respect. Both sides need to come together and the racism would end.

As for the Imperials. Well, all I can say is the Empire has fallen quite a long ways since the days of Martin Septim. Talos himself would be ashamed. I know my character was nabbed along with a bunch of Stormcloaks at the start of the game. I know my character was sentenced to die, with no explanation on why. I know I wasn't given any sort of trial. These are all uncivilized, barbaric actions and truly beneath what I would think the Empire stands for. Which shows a corruption at the deepest levels. It's not like some military flunky was calling the shots. General Tullius himself was there. The military leader of the imperial forces in Skyrim was there and perfectly fine with them chopping off my head with no evidence I did anything illegal.

So it really is yet another perspective call. Both sides stink, but they stink in different ways. It really just depends on what odor offends you the most and what odor you can live with.

[Incariuz]

Originally posted by jreese46:

Originally posted by Incariuz:

Imperial is the smarter option for long term war efforts against the Thalmor, as Stormcloaks winning causes more military division in the long term, but... Stormcloaks are more honourable? In their war for the rights and freedoms of their people. That's how I look at it at least. Which side I pick all depends on my character. If yours is one who fights for honour, and your people, you go Stormcloak. However if you're intelligent, and all about victory at any cost, you go Imperial.

When you say "victory," do you mean the Stormcloaks are beaten and the Thalmor are still free to roam the province and arrest, imprison, torture, and kill the citizens, with absolute impunity?

No, I mean victory over the Thalmor. It's pretty obvious the war isn't done with them yet, the whole white gold concordant is just a tactic to bring the war to a stand still temporarily in order to give time to recuperate. If the Stormcloaks win the civil war however, that could lead to full separation from the empire, reducing military strength, and making it harder to beat the Thalmor in future battles. It's unfortunate the civil war even has to happen to begin with, as the only people who gain anything from it are the Thalmor, but... Despite the losses resulting from the war, at least if the Imperials win, there is hope of everyone staying unified for future wars, instead of everyone fighting separately on different fronts.

I can understand the Stormcloak sentiment, but from a logical perspective, I'd see it better to pretend to submit, build strength, and strike back hard when the time is right. Then things can go back to the way they should be, and Talos can be openly praised again.

Originally posted by |42Cdo|Sharpkiller:

I would say imperial are slightly better because at least they are not xenophobic as the stormcloak who are apparently is racist to all other races?

Most civilizations in Tamriel are xenophobic to a degree, but even then, not all Stormcloaks are. The whole Skyrim is for the Nords is just a case of pride, and not letting others rule over them and their culture. Yes you can feel bad with how some Nords treat various Mer across Skyrim, including the Dunmer in Windhelm, but... Go to Morrowind and see how they treat the N'Wah.

[lizrdfishr]

If the Dragonborn won't join either side, the racism starts to end there.


It's true, the game will not permit you to succeed in ending the civil war.

But..
Of the three options, two have you following orders and killing people you aren't angry with.

The third option leaves you in command of yourself, free to trade with and work with both sides.

If there is to be a coming together to end the war and the racism, it will start with someone who can work like that third guy.

[Halcyform]

The majority of Nords are pretty much in your face and don't like magic, thievery or sneaking around. If you want something, take it. If some else has it, fairly barter or compete for it. Putting in a hard days work and a hard night drinking is pretty much a Nord's bread and butter. However, you always have your outliers. You're going to have Nords that are sort of outcasts and go the rogue or mage route. So, lore wise, you can pretty much go with anything on either side.

As far as Stormcloaks vs Imperials, I'd mainly go with Stormcloaks. I always get a kick out of people throwing racism and xenophobia around. Newsflash: these are natural defense mechanisms that communities have to protect themselves from garbage monsters that are going to cause trouble. Any outsider should expect some exclusion and expect to have to work harder to be included. In a medieval-like environment, death is right around the corner, and you can't just be letting everyone in. Especially if they don't have any intention to assimilate and/or don't work/produce.

Stormcloaks have the edge overall regardless of what anyone thinks of their culture/ideals. Skyrim is largely pristine, resource rich and geographically isolated (on all sides). They have home field advantage. Nords also don't need much when it comes to taking the fight to someone.

The Imperials were the ones that stabbed the Nords in the back. That and the fact that the Nords have given the Imperials critical military victories, the Nords don't owe them (or anyone else) anything. Drive both the Imperials and the Thalmor out. Good luck getting back in. Heavy losses (financial, material and personnel) from navigating the terrain alone.