Nemesis vs XP32 Question

[ATEM]

In my last Skyrim SE run I played about 80 hours with no problems at all. Then I saw how cool CGO was, and Installed Nemesis, and immediately felt the gameplay more fun. After installing a few extra mods for DAR/Nemesis like AGO, and other few animations mods I started to note my game started to CTD.

I did not know XP32 was not supported by Nemesis, and in my modding experience ANYTHING touching XP32 was an invitation for Skyrim to crash. So here I am asking you, if you use nemesis, how do you deal with no xp32? My understanding is that XP32 is the base for body physics, and also a lot of other seems to rely on it.

What's the right way to use CGO if I want to keep the body physics?

[ATEM]

引用自 KNDY：

引用自 ATEM：

・・・

Hold on, where's your compability patch ? I don't see any patch for anything.. Please run an instance of LOOT, I'm sure you left out quite a bit of patching. Also some patch cannot be merged...

Other than the required mods specified in the mod's page, I didn't do any other patching. I also 'think' I installed the mods in a good order. I always tried to avoid heavy scripted mods, most of my mods are just visual overhaul.

I have not installed LOOT, I thought Vortex took care of the load order, and I can't remember how to clean the dirty edits in the main .esms. Since I was playing with no issues I decided to not mess with it.

"Your nemesis patched with no crashes and tells you how long it took right?"

Yes, no errors whatsoever. Actually, everything was working just fine except that it started to ctd.

Sorry for the clunky SS, here is the list:

# Automatically generated by Vortex
Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
RSkyrimChildren.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp
Expressive Facegen Morphs.esl
High Poly Head.esm
OSA.esm
RealisticWaterTwo - Resources.esm
Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm
TerrainLodRedone.esp
SkyUI_SE.esp
Immersive Sounds - Compendium.esp
SMIM-SE-Merged-All.esp
ELFX - Exteriors.esp
ELFX - Weathers.esp
Dolomite Weathers.esp
DSerArcheryGameplayOverhaul.esp
DSer360MovementBehavior.esp
RSChildren.esp
chfshPlayerVoicesets.esp
Thundering Shouts.esp
Scrolling Speed.esp
VioLens SE.esp
SimplyBiggerGiantsAndMammoths.esp
GoToBed.esp
UltimateCombat.esp
DSerCombatGameplayOverhaul.esp
SmoothCam.esp
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
S3DTrees NextGenerationForests.esp
DepthsOfSkyrim.esp
ImmersiveInteractions.esp
Imperial Guard Centurion Armor SE - Johnskyrim.esp
dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp
dD-Larger Splatter Size.esp
dD-Reduced Wound Size.esp
Bears of the North.esp
S3DRocks.esp
MLPSoulGems.esp
Stella Mithril Armor.esp
Landscape Fixes For Grass Mods.esp
Folkvangr - Grass and Landscape Overhaul.esp
S3DLandscapes NextGenerationForests.esp
RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp
GoToBed-RealisticNeedsandDiseases-patch.esp
PraedysElderScrollSoulCairnFix.esp
Book Covers Skyrim.esp
Guards_Armor_Replacer.esp
TMBVanillaArmorandClothes.esp
FAAC.esp
DX Druid Armor.esp
OStim.esp
CHOB Jieun.esp
RutahTattooPack SE.esp
E_OGN.esp
[COCO]Lingerie.esp
High Poly Pretty Face and Darker Brows Stand Alone.esp
FMS_FemaleMakeupSuite.esp
3BBB.esp
CBBE.esp
Sea of Spirits.esp
Schlongs of Skyrim.esp
KS Hairdo's.esp
SOSRaceMenu.esp
icepenguinworldmapclassic.esp
UIExtensions.esp
AddItemMenuSE.esp
AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
Immersive Horses.esp
EVE_GiantCampfiresCastShadows.esp
SOS - Shop.esp
Ultimate Lingerie Collection 2.esp
_GSPoses.esp
Black Thief.esp
Minou Aradia Lace Dress.esp
Wicks Chainmail Bikinis.esp
widescreen_skyui_fix.esp
DineWithFollowers.esp
Daily-Wear.esp
FNIS.esp
12FemaleBrows.esp
FollowerWander2.esp
SLAL_GSAnimObjects.esp
KS Jewelry.esp
KSHairdosSMP.esp
OCum.esp
OSearch.esp
Osare DressArmor.esp
OStrapOn.esp
Project Proteus.esp
R18Pn - Leere Armor.esp
RaceMenuHH.esp
RaceMenu.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp
XPMSE.esp
Ranger Outfit.esp
skyforgedWeapons.esp
TheEyesOfBeauty.esp
timescale6.esp
UNP Undies.esp
Vanilla Hair Replacer - VHR - BIB.esp
Wolfpaint_Face.esp
[namida1126]Yvonne Assets.esp
zzArmormashups.esp
KSWigsSMP.esp
SOS - VectorPlexus Regular Addon.esp
DX Dark Knight Armor.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
ELFXEnhancer.esp
RealisticWaterTwo.esp

==================
Just in case here's the PC Specs:
RTX3080 / Ryzen 5900x / 64GB 3200hmz Dominator. Game is installed in an SSD

[Vlad 254]

2 weather mods in the same load order will cause problems. you must only have 1 installed.

When you installed SOS Race Menu did you make sure to UNCHECK the box that says "Install male skeletons" ?

otherwise you'll overwrite XPMSE

[ATEM]

引用自 Vlad 254：

Ok, had to grab a quick bite.

. . .

Are all the plugins active? (Make sure)
-Yup

Did you use the nemesis patch for AGO?
-Aye

One of the reasons I got rid of AGO was with CGO etc my camera was not liking the setup. The CGO mod author suggests "Improved Camera"
-In my case the camera was great, I liked AGO a lot.

"360 Combat requires changes to the vanilla races inside the esp. If you want to use this feature, you may need to create a patch with TES5Edit to fix a conflict with another esp file"

-I simply overrided 360 Movement Behavior with 360 Movement Behavior Fix cuz I liked the character to stay in the direction he was walking to. didn't add any other patch. Honestly idk how to do a patch with TES5Edit. I rather remove it if that's the case.

[ATEM]

引用自 Vlad 254：

2 weather mods in the same load order will cause problems. you must only have 1 installed.

When you installed SOS Race Menu did you make sure to UNCHECK the box that says "Install male skeletons" ?

otherwise you'll overwrite XPMSE

"2 weather mods in the same load order will cause problems. you must only have 1 installed."
-It might comflict but it never broke the game, that's those two mods were active in my 80hours+ run. But I will clean it. My ENB is made for Dolomite weathers that's why I have it active.

When you installed SOS Race Menu did you make sure to UNCHECK the box that says "Install male skeletons" ?
-I can't remember. That's a mod I also had in my long run and caused no problems, but I can re-install and make sure it's not active.

[Vlad 254]

Sometimes problems don't show up as quick or as obvious as others. But once the list starts growing things can change fast. The 2 I mentioned, that jumped out at me are 2 well known rules.

Never let XPMSE be overwritten
&
Never use two weather mods

and when you start using Nemesis or FNIS the same applies, the more mods that depend on them in the same load order the more we need to check that they work together and they are patched correctly. Also, with both FNIS and Nemesis the same rule applies, everytime you add an animation mod you must run them (FNIS or Nemesis). Same goes for removing Animation mods.

Speaking of removing mods, this can be very problematic unless you know which mods can in fact be removed mid-game. With that thought in mind you'll need to start from scratch with a Clean Vanilla reinstall.

Your issues are most likely nothing to do with Nemesis directly. Might be with mods you installed that depend on Nemesis but that doesn't mean Nemesis is the issue. Same applies to FNIS, SKYUI, USSEP, the list goes on as they all constantly get the blame .

[ATEM]

Okay guys, so after reading yall here is what I'll do. I have work so I'll prolly do this over the weekend.

I'll remove all the mods I installed after my stable long run. I'll play again and test there's not issues, once I make sure the game it's stable, I'll run LOOT and I'll clean the masters .esm I'll make sure the game it's stable again after that.

Then I'll start with Nemesis animation mods and see if that's really the issue that causes ctd. Since one of you told me you have both XPMSE and CGO working just fine then I must be doing something wrong on my end.

If I can't figure it out I'll just give up and play without DAR mods lol, can't blame me, this is just tiring and time consuming process. Thanks for the advices

[Vlad 254]

引用自 ATEM：

Since one of you told me you have both XPMSE and CGO working just fine then I must be doing something wrong on my end.

More than one of us.

And make sure when you start over you do this first
VERY IMPORTANT
https://youtu.be/g67CnHD1wvY
Take your time and TEST every 2 or 3 mods you add along the way. Much easier to narrow down the issue this way. Good luck and keep us posted.

[KNDY | No Toxicity!]

LOOT isn't just about load order. LOOT also check if you miss any patch required for 2 or so mods to work together or to tell you that certain mod conflict with another.

Some mods that aren't meant to work together sometimes doesn't crash your game because it wasn't working right. When it finally is, it will then cause problem.

I've played 50+ hours of game before with a patch missing and suddenly getting lots of crash out of nowhere because the script for a certain mod hasn't started yet, so problems wouldn't show up until the script finally ran and there were compability issues.

SO yea, get LOOT and check if you miss anything.

My concern is that you have multiple landscape mod but can't tell you how that'll work until you run an instance of LOOT and determine if they're compatible together.

[ATEM]

引用自 Vlad 254：

Sometimes problems don't show up as quick or as obvious as others. . .

One more question tho, when I installed CGO I had to run first FNIS and then Nemesis, otherwise I would not get the roll animation or the 2 hands stance in CGO. What's the right way to install new animations? Ignore FNIS and run Nemesis? I thought only FNIS supported XPMSE, so when Nemesis overrides Fnis I thought it made some sort of conflict with the skeleton.

"Never let XPMSE be overwritten & Never use two weather mods"
Yeah, I know very well the XPMSE rule, the weathers I always tried to use one. The thing is that ELFX creates light sources in dungeons and plenty of other items, so I just tried to combine that with Dolomite Weathers.

"Speaking of removing mods, this can be very problematic..."
Know this well as well, I'm currently starting a new game and running around until it crashes. If it doesn't crash in 3 hours test then I would assume the game it's stable.
(Then you get a ctd after 20 hours and curse the world)

[Vlad 254]

You can use ELFX interior but not ELFX weather unless you drop Dolomite

I would say don't use FNIS. You need Nemesis for CGO and you do not need FNIS for XPMSSE as Nemesis will create a dummy FNIS plugin

Also, yes Vortex has Loot API built in and so will sort your load order. But Vortex will also alert you to read Loot messages which are very important messages, like patch mod X etc. and they'll give you the link

[Vlad 254]

I really have to say do not use FNIS, it can be done but why? Only if needed and it is not needed. So why risk another problem.

[smr1957]

See, and I would recommend going the other way. If you never had any issues with FNIS, and it is just a few mods that require Nemesis, PLUS, given the fact that although many people do not have an issues with it, as far as I can see it is NO LONGER SUPPORTED (which was, after all, one of the main things that many people touted as giving it an edge over FNIS, even over and above the way the animations looked), nor is the author even available anymore, I would have to come squarely down on the side of NOT using it, but sticking with FNIS. Why change something that isn't broken - even if you really do like how good the animations now are. In the long run, that is really of little significance compared to ensuring that the game runs problem free. If Nemesis were being supported and actually had all the bugs worked out of it (which it has clearly not had, by reading the comments at Github) - or at least if it was being supported and the bugs were being worked on even if they were not all fixed, I would be amongst the very first to say to switch. Unfortunately, I cannot, as it does not meet the requirements that I demand of a mod before including it in my build which is as follows (what I call the Golden Rule of Modding):

No matter how good a mod may look or sound, no matter how much you may really want a mod, if the mod does not work as it should, causes issues in your game, or even seems to have the potential to cause issues, dump the mod. A game that does not work is no game at all.


Nemesis and some of the mods that require it sound great, but there are serious questions in my mind as to the potential for issues - questions that are serious enough to me to warrant not recommending it. And, it is by sticking to these very strict rules, that I am able to create completely stable, CTD free builds of 1500 to 2200 total mods.

But, it is up to you - and nobody else - to decide what goes in your game - we can only share with you what our experience, knowledge, and research have shown us. The final decision lies with you. Whatever you decide, good luck!

[ATEM]

引用自 smr1957：

... The final decision lies with you. Whatever you decide, good luck!

Thank you, it's a very good advice. I had similar rule, I just got a bit over excited to see that Skyrim could turn into some sort of dark souls. I also have limited time so I think i need to sort out my priorities because fixing skyrim bugs got old for me.

In any case, good stuff guys, all comments were welcomed and gave me some insight into what could be wrong.

btw 1500 mods is crazy, I would need to see that to believe it, u a master. Most ppl screws the game after 100.

[Vlad 254]

Although smr makes good points they are both good mods. Problem is many, including ATEM from what she said, wants to use CGO and FNIS will not work with it (or a number of other popular mods for that matter).

Unless one gives you problems use the mod that works for your style of play. Your game your way. Choices are good.

[smr1957]

引用自 ATEM：

- snip -

btw 1500 mods is crazy, I would need to see that to believe it, u a master. Most ppl screws the game after 100.

They are linked on my profile page (though my 2215 mod build is not posted there yet, as I am just finishing up my playtest for it)