CTD in Whiterun, Windhelm

[faustling]

Busted my head on this one: I get a CTD every time I approach Whiterun or Windhelm. This happens when I approach the outskirts, not the city itself. No problem in Riften or Falkreath. I own the Tundra Homestead in Whiterun, but I have hardly even been to Windhelm. I thought this must be a mod conflict (my load includes Open Cities, Sewers, and some others which might affect these cities), so I booted directly from Steam. Booting without any mods changed nothing. The same thing happened, so I don't think it's a mod conflict. What else could it possibly be?

[faustling]

It seems I am fated to redo the load and start a new game. But there is one thing that troubles me: I did start a new game with the existing load, just to see what would happen, and it was bad: SkyUI didn't load properly. Inventory and containers didn't work. I have no idea how that happened, since the load order on SkyUI is 322, the very very bottom of the load order and nothing should have overwritten it. I did replace SkyUI, but the new copy worked no better. I didn't have this problem with the old saves. I am hesitant to start a new game until I know how this happened and how to prevent it.

(Later) Hold on, the load order must have changed when I started a new game. SkyUI is now in the middle. I need to figure out what is overwriting it.

(Later) Another issue: I updated some mods without checking the patches. In particular, there was very likely a conflict between the new Dawn of Skyrim (1.5) and the older version, which had been patched to make it compatible with Open Cities. (The name change complicated things.) I eventually reverted to the older version, but maybe too late to prevent damage to my game.

[smr1957]

The only thing you need to worry about overwriting SkyUI is some other mod that changes interface file, and there are not that many of them - and actually SkyUi usually loads early in the load order (just make sure that nothing overwrites either the skeleton, XPMSSE, or Papyrus Utility - Papyrus Utility does not have a plug-in).

Open Cities is great, but it is one of those mods best used in a smaller build, as it does require so many patches

[faustling]

OK, I'm uninstalling everything and starting over. I'll eliminate Open Cities, but there still are some very big mods: JK's, Cutting Room Floor, Dawn, Legacy, among others. Also considering Whiterun Expanded (there's a patch), and I may add some other expansions later. I was wondering if you have any tips on essential mods I should start with to build my core load.

[Vlad 254]

Hey faustling, You should use the first 4 mods in this guide as a bare minimum to start your load order. I would and always to start with at least the first 9 which includes SkyUI and both Noble Skyrim and SMIM which make a great texture base as between the 2 of them they retexture so much of the game. Anything you add as far as textures go later on is fine just let the new mods overwrite those two, This way much of the game will be retextured.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1986067552

[faustling]

Thanks!

(Later) Struggling with my new load. I had tried Amazing Follower Tweaks earlier, but it had compatibility problems and I didn't need most of those features. Some people recommend Nether's Follower Framework, which is less resource-heavy. Anyone have an opinion?

(Later) I dumped a bunch of junk and built a new core with the latest mods. I'll be adding a lot of stuff later, but I can obviously go a lot of different ways from here. Any suggestions welcome.

# Automatically generated by Vortex
Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
ccbgssse002-exoticarrows.esl
ccbgssse003-zombies.esl
ccbgssse004-ruinsedge.esl
ccbgssse006-stendarshammer.esl
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ccbgssse013-dawnfang.esl
cceejsse004-hall.esl
Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp
MajesticMountains_Landscape.esm
MajesticMountains_Moss.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Resources.esm
ApachiiHair.esm
SkyrimImprovedPuddles-DG-HF-DB.esp
SkyUI_SE.esp
SMIM-SE-Merged-All.esp
zzzUnderwear.esp
JKs Skyrim.esp
SurWR.esp
JKs The Drunken Huntsman.esp
JK - CWE Patch.esp
Dustmote_Empty_Breezehome_with_Guestwing_1.0.esp
Epic UI Sounds.esp
Usable lantern.esp
DragonCombatDialogue.esp
Conditional Expressions.esp
Better Dynamic Snow SE.esp
Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp.ghost
JK's The Pawned Prawn.esp
SkyrimSewers.esp
Can Travel From Player Homes.esp
BecomeABard.esp
Blended Shorelines.esp
BlendedRoads.esp
Dylbills Positioner.esp
ImmersiveInteractions.esp
FK's Diverse Racial Skeletons.esp
LeftHandRings-1stPersonView.esp
LeftHandRings.esp
dark face fix.esp
MajesticMountains.esp
Skyrim Remastered - Glaciers and Ice.esp
Skyrim Remastered - Ice Caves Fix.esp
RaceMenu.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
SOSRaceMenu.esp
XPMSE.esp
FNIS.esp
CBBE.esp
RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp
KS Hairdo's.esp
The Eyes Of Beauty - Elves Edition.esp
TheEyesOfBeauty.esp
icepenguinworldmapclassic.esp
Run For Your Lives.esp
3DNPC TKAA Patch.ghost.esp.ghost
arnima.esp.ghost
Kynesgrove.esp.ghost
Provincial Courier Service.esp
SurWRMoveDeRoadhouse.esp
Missives.esp
SMIM-RatwayChandellierFix.esp
The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
MAS - USSEP Dock Fix.esp.ghost
Skyrim - Voices_en0.esp.ghost
SS TKAA AI.esp.ghost
Containers and Leveled Lists Fixes.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
RealisticWaterTwo.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp.ghost

[faustling]

Bad new already. I haven't left Breezehome yet, and already the game has crashed three times, always when I was reading something in my inventory (and it wasn't even the same thing). I have no idea why this is happening. Any ideas?

(Later) I changed the order some, moving JK's near the top and putting the Whiterun expansion directly below it, the Breezehome mod a good deal below that. It made no obvious difference. Attempting to leave the house also causes a crash. This has happened twice.

[smr1957]

Then what you need to do is start vanilla and just add mods in small groups, saving as you go (as per the instructions contained in the post I linked - I'll re-link it here:
Troubleshooting Your Load Order
https://steamcommunity.com/app/489830/discussions/0/3109142236155416522/ ), until you pin down the mod that is causing the issue. Pain in the butt, but that is the only way.

[faustling]

Kind of hard to do that: Vanilla means I start as a prisoner and can't test the part of the game where it crashes.

(Later) A "vanilla" boot from my latest save leads to a crash the moment I leave the building, just like before.

[smr1957]

When I say vanilla, ! am not including mods like the Unofficial Patch or Alternate Start - or even mods necessary for character creation. Use just those and add to it as per the linked topic. (Selecting I am a patron at a local inn and choosing The Bannered Mare will put you right into Whiterun.)

[faustling]

Emerging from the standard Breezehome with this load causes an instant crash. So I have to figure out which of these important mods is causing it. Or maybe it's something else?

# Automatically generated by Vortex
Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
ccbgssse002-exoticarrows.esl
ccbgssse003-zombies.esl
ccbgssse004-ruinsedge.esl
ccbgssse006-stendarshammer.esl
ccbgssse007-chrysamere.esl
ccbgssse010-petdwarvenarmoredmudcrab.esl
ccbgssse014-spellpack01.esl
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cceejsse001-hstead.esm
ccqdrsse002-firewood.esl
ccbgssse018-shadowrend.esl
ccbgssse035-petnhound.esl
ccfsvsse001-backpacks.esl
cceejsse002-tower.esl
ccvsvsse002-pets.esl
ccbgssse037-curios.esl
ccbgssse034-mntuni.esl
ccbgssse045-hasedoki.esl
ccbgssse008-wraithguard.esl
ccbgssse036-petbwolf.esl
ccbgssse043-crosselv.esl
cceejsse003-hollow.esl
ccbgssse016-umbra.esm
ccbgssse031-advcyrus.esm
ccbgssse040-advobgobs.esl
ccbgssse058-ba_steel.esl
ccpewsse002-armsofchaos.esl
ccbgssse041-netchleather.esl
ccedhsse002-splkntset.esl
ccbgssse064-ba_elven.esl
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ccbgssse062-ba_dwarvenmail.esl
ccbgssse060-ba_dragonscale.esl
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ccbgssse057-ba_stalhrim.esl
ccbgssse025-advdsgs.esm
ccffbsse002-crossbowpack.esl
ccbgssse013-dawnfang.esl
cceejsse004-hall.esl
Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp
ApachiiHair.esm
SkyUI_SE.esp
FK's Diverse Racial Skeletons.esp
RaceMenu.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
SOSRaceMenu.esp
XPMSE.esp
FNIS.esp
CBBE.esp
RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp
KS Hairdo's.esp
The Eyes Of Beauty - Elves Edition.esp
TheEyesOfBeauty.esp
3DNPC TKAA Patch.ghost.esp.ghost
arnima.esp.ghost
DragonCombatDialogue.esp.ghost
Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp.ghost
Kynesgrove.esp.ghost
MAS - USSEP Dock Fix.esp.ghost
Skyrim - Voices_en0.esp.ghost
SS TKAA AI.esp.ghost
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp.ghost

(Stripping out Race Compatibility and the skeleton fix (and the talking dragon mod I somehow missed last time) didn't do anything. I'm getting down to some very bare bones here.

(Later) I had a brilliant flash of insight and replaced SKSE. It didn't help. My next genius move was to take out Skyrim Priority and the Flashing Savegame Fix. That didn't work either. Maybe I'm not so smart as I thought. Maybe I'm actually a moron. I feel like one anyway. Nothing makes any sense.

(Later) I may be stupid, but I'm persistent. Using coc Whiterun to leave the house (instead of using the door) just crashed it that much quicker. Starting in Tundra Homestead (instead of Breezehome) only made things worse: The game crashed as soon as I hit the bed in the jail cell. Maybe something from my LAST load is somehow screwing things up? I wouldn't know how to check for that.

(Later) I got out, but it was a short excursion. The command coc falkreathdeadmansdrink teleported me inside the tavern, but as soon as I left it, the game crashed.

[faustling]

My final offer: The only mods left are SKSE64, the Unofficial Patch and Alternate Start. It still crashes in the exact same place. I don't think that there ever was anything wrong with my load. There is some bug that prevents me from playing. (And yes, I did check my local data for errors. There were none.)


# Automatically generated by Vortex
Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
ccbgssse002-exoticarrows.esl
ccbgssse003-zombies.esl
ccbgssse004-ruinsedge.esl
ccbgssse006-stendarshammer.esl
ccbgssse007-chrysamere.esl
ccbgssse010-petdwarvenarmoredmudcrab.esl
ccbgssse014-spellpack01.esl
ccbgssse019-staffofsheogorath.esl
ccbgssse020-graycowl.esl
ccbgssse021-lordsmail.esl
ccmtysse001-knightsofthenine.esl
cctwbsse001-puzzledungeon.esm
cceejsse001-hstead.esm
ccqdrsse002-firewood.esl
ccbgssse018-shadowrend.esl
ccbgssse035-petnhound.esl
ccfsvsse001-backpacks.esl
cceejsse002-tower.esl
ccvsvsse002-pets.esl
ccbgssse037-curios.esl
ccbgssse034-mntuni.esl
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ccbgssse008-wraithguard.esl
ccbgssse036-petbwolf.esl
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ccbgssse016-umbra.esm
ccbgssse031-advcyrus.esm
ccbgssse040-advobgobs.esl
ccbgssse058-ba_steel.esl
ccpewsse002-armsofchaos.esl
ccbgssse041-netchleather.esl
ccedhsse002-splkntset.esl
ccbgssse064-ba_elven.esl
ccbgssse063-ba_ebony.esl
ccbgssse062-ba_dwarvenmail.esl
ccbgssse060-ba_dragonscale.esl
ccbgssse051-ba_daedricmail.esl
ccbgssse057-ba_stalhrim.esl
ccbgssse025-advdsgs.esm
ccffbsse002-crossbowpack.esl
ccbgssse013-dawnfang.esl
cceejsse004-hall.esl
Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp
3DNPC TKAA Patch.ghost.esp.ghost
arnima.esp.ghost
Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp.ghost
Kynesgrove.esp.ghost
MAS - USSEP Dock Fix.esp.ghost
Skyrim - Voices_en0.esp.ghost
SS TKAA AI.esp.ghost
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp.ghost

[smr1957]

Well, now you need to do a clean reinstall - there are undoubtedly some files leftover:
Resetting SkyrimSE to Vanilla or A Clean Reinstall by grimus -
http://steamcommunity.com/app/489830/discussions/0/312265589446940121/

or
https://youtu.be/g67CnHD1wvY

Also, when you start up your next test, the only mods that should be installed are Alternate Start, SkyUI, Unofficial Patch and any mods necessary for character creation (and SKSE64, of course). Make sure none of the Creation Club mods are installed either (all those cc .esl files). Your load order for the test should be:
Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
Hearthfires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp
SkyUI_SE.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp

There should be nothing else in the list of plugins.

[faustling]

Not sure how to remove plug-ins. All I can do with Vortex is "ghost" them.

[Vlad 254]

Go to the mods section. to remove them properly.

You can also disable them from the mods section or the plugin section.

AND, you can click on the name of the mod (link) in the plugin section and that will take you to that mod in the mod section

[faustling]

Somehow, I ended up with a lot of ghosted plug-ins for which the mods had long been removed.

3DNPC TKAA Patch.ghost.esp.ghost
arnima.esp.ghost
Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp.ghost
Kynesgrove.esp.ghost
MAS - USSEP Dock Fix.esp.ghost
Skyrim - Voices_en0.esp.ghost
SS TKAA AI.esp.ghost

(Later) Checked the Vortex diagnostic files, which recorded no errors. Perhaps the problem is with Steam?