School me on lore how did the elves and men end up going to war?

[travel]

I know the aldmeri dominion is of bosmer and high elves and apparently kicked ass and left tamriel and the empire in the sorry state its in.

Its a shame ulfric is so racist he seems a competent general for the nords. I know the white gold concordat was the ceasefire that outlawed talos worship for some reason i dont know why, and thalomar secret agents undermine the empire under the guise of enforcing this law.

Nords are just one side of tamriel right? Ive basically played the nord story, not the hammerfell, elf or argonian or khajit stories and homelands?

[Jon.Topps]

I'm no expert, so further posts please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere, but this is my understanding.

So for the elven war in Skyrim, for the most part when it's referring to ancient history, I think it's actually referring to the "snow" elves, not elves in general. When Farkas talks about it (the dumb guy in the Companions), he says something like, "the nords killed the elves when they came here, but obviously they didn't get them all". In this sense, he seems to be misunderstanding the whole situation, or, he's actually referring to the Falmer (who are the descendants of the snow elves). This battle of the nords vs the snow elves goes back a long time ago to the original nords coming over. It seems the snow elves were friendly, but then all of a sudden attacked, and the nords were like "nope" and slaughtered them, which drove the very few remaining underground, where they became the Falmer we meet in the game.

If it's referring to the human vs elven wars, it's talking about that happening elsewhere, and not really Skyrim specifically (and from what I gather, it was an Empire thing, not a nord thing). This was a war that happened 30 years ago (relative to the events in Skyrim), and from what I remember, it was in Cyrodil, with the Empire fighting the Elves. This finalized in the White Gold Concordat, which is basically the peace treating between humans and elves. This is the reason Talos worship is forbidden in the Empire's holds in Skyrim, because the elves don't like it, and that was part of the treaty. This is why the "true nords" hate the evles, and Aldmeri Dominion, the White Gold Concordat, etc.

[Invader]

Originally posted by travel:

I know the aldmeri dominion is of bosmer and high elves and apparently kicked ass and left tamriel and the empire in the sorry state its in.

Its a shame ulfric is so racist he seems a competent general for the nords. I know the white gold concordat was the ceasefire that outlawed talos worship for some reason i dont know why, and thalomar secret agents undermine the empire under the guise of enforcing this law.

Nords are just one side of tamriel right? Ive basically played the nord story, not the hammerfell, elf or argonian or khajit stories and homelands?

It goes deeper with Ulfric, he was working with the elves. The previous high king wanted to secede but he was worry with the elves and not having a proper backing. It was stated if Ulfric would of pushed the issue, the previous high king would of secede. The thalmor prefers a civil-war to weakening the empire. So they decided to play both sides. They in the shadows work with Ulfric to gain power. The empire could put the civil war down quickly but they're preparing for the war with the Thalmor. So they only send some troops and a single competent general.

Originally posted by Jon.Topps:

I'm no expert, so further posts please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere, but this is my understanding.

So for the elven war in Skyrim, for the most part when it's referring to ancient history, I think it's actually referring to the "snow" elves, not elves in general. When Farkas talks about it (the dumb guy in the Companions), he says something like, "the nords killed the elves when they came here, but obviously they didn't get them all". In this sense, he seems to be misunderstanding the whole situation, or, he's actually referring to the Falmer (who are the descendants of the snow elves). This battle of the nords vs the snow elves goes back a long time ago to the original nords coming over. It seems the snow elves were friendly, but then all of a sudden attacked, and the nords were like "nope" and slaughtered them, which drove the very few remaining underground, where they became the Falmer we meet in the game.

If it's referring to the human vs elven wars, it's talking about that happening elsewhere, and not really Skyrim specifically (and from what I gather, it was an Empire thing, not a nord thing). This was a war that happened 30 years ago (relative to the events in Skyrim), and from what I remember, it was in Cyrodil, with the Empire fighting the Elves. This finalized in the White Gold Concordat, which is basically the peace treating between humans and elves. This is the reason Talos worship is forbidden in the Empire's holds in Skyrim, because the elves don't like it, and that was part of the treaty. This is why the "true nords" hate the evles, and Aldmeri Dominion, the White Gold Concordat, etc.

The nords hate everyone and they're not the natives of Skyrim. I'm going to add more to the Talos in lore. The empire never enforce no talos worship but just something they can use for the no aggressive pack. Thalmor hates Talos because 1, he killed a lot of elves. 2, Elves hate anyone that are not Elves. 3, they hate the idea of anyone besides their own race achieving god-hood. Thalmor in Skyrim main purpose to spark and enflame a civil war, thus weakening the empire. The dragons at first were great because this would demoralize and weaken skyrim but the dragonborne is basically a walking god. This last piece is just my opinion but I think it should be canon that he joins the empire for the civil war. Imagine the empire having the dragonborne on their side. The Thalmor would need rethink and approach things different.

Additional lore, in the brotherhood quest line, you had that one force being the main thorn at their side. I can't remember their name on top of my head, anyway! Their purpose was anti thalmor. They were not only a thorn to the dark brotherhood but also to the thalmor!

[Von Faustien]

Elves and men have been at war on and off for more or less forever.

TES has this overarching conflict between anu(order) and padomy/sithis(chaos) and the various races tend to follow one side or another.

mer are at the core anuic beings by default and men are padomic being by nature.

the creation of Nirn was an act of change so the elves basicly want to undo it and go back to the never changing divine state the started out at. humans more or less viwe the change as a good thing and like the fact they and reality exist even if its a mess.

the intial stage of this conflict started with the El'nofay lesser adric spirits during creation most were corupted and altered these were the wandering elnofay the ones that werent the old elnofay got pissy the others got changed and went to war causing massive amounts of destruction and reshaping nirn.

over time the divine power of both sides faded and the old elnofay became the aldmer (old school proto elf race) the wandering elnofay became the atmorans (proto nord and nedic race)

from the aldmer we get the altmer, maomer, falmer, Chimer, dwemer. the Atmorans became the nords and various nedic tribes (proto imperials). both sides have conflicting ideas as the Mer still think there gods and men more or less acepted what happened and embraced mortality.

this lead to the long history of the mer races enslaving men on the grounds that there better so its OK. the 2 long lasting effects of this are 1 altmer in Highrock create a race of Manmer (bretons) because of the large amounts of human sex slaves and the other humans get pissed at the elves and kill them off of destroy the bulk of there power (see the genocide of the falmer and Penial Elfslayer Whitstrike ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ up the alyids. this left Alinor (the summerset isles) as the last bastion of real elves aside from the small maomer islands. (im leaving out the dwemer Chimer and bosmer for a reason)

As of the current era Altmer are the closest to the old elnofay and really want to unmake reality and go back being unchanging divine beings

now dispite the Anuic nature of elves various groups also came around to the more padomic way of thinking. the Dwemer being smart figured out mortality was a test and sought not to return to what they used to be but beat Lorkhan trial and become something better via giant god robot this went really poorly or really well its kind of iffy what happened.

the Chimer (proto dunmer) also with info provided from the three "good" deadra figure out the anuic viwepoint is full of ♥♥♥♥ and embrace the trial that is Nirn seeking to beat it via achiving CHIM Vivic is really the only one to pull it off but there basicly fine with the padomic nature of Nirn at this point.

the orsmir (orc) are corupted altmer who changed after Boethia either called out the hypocracy of Trinimac and the Anuic viwepoint or litterly ate and ♥♥♥♥ out trinimac turning him into malacath and his altmer followers into orcs

Now for the Bosmer and Khajiit both share a common creation myth. the bosmer and Khajiit started as a formless chaotic race of shapshifting creatures and were given form by there respective patron gods. the bosmer were given the normal elf form by Y'ffre but still retain some of there older primal nature and can revert to it via the wild hunt ritual. The Khajiit were given a fixed form by Azura and still retain a hint at there chaotic past as there form is determined by the moons stages at birth. personaly id argue the whole formeless chaos thing seems more in line with wandering elnofay than the Old elnofay that made the real eves but either way its complicated and possible both bosmer and Khajiit are just corupted Aldmer.



now outside the two main branches of races we get you have three outliers. Yokudans (redgaurds), Hist, and the Sinistral Elves. all three seem to holdovers from the last cycle of the universe that made it into the current cycle

the Hist are supper hard to kill spore trees with magic power and worship sithis so im going with Padomic. the Argonians being the semi atonomus slave race the hist made from normal lizzards also fit here. the hist seem to consider everyone else pointless and only care about surviving hence why they basicly never do anything unless the issues a threat to the blackmarsh interior which mortal races outside argonians cant live in so they arent relavent on a wide scale that said if your a threat they will ♥♥♥♥ you up bad like there juiced up army of argonians counter invading oblvion.

Now the Sinistral Elves unlike current mer are suposedly padomic like the hist and current men are but they got killed by the Yokudans so we have almost no info. the Yokudans are unlike current men anuic placing them more in line with mer belife wise. you'd think this would put them more in line with Altmer way of thinking but the altmer are arogent ♥♥♥♥♥. I also want to note the fact races like the hist and Yokudans lived past the end of the last version of reality and made it to this one also shoots a big hole in the altmer's if we unmake reality we can be gods again plan as that didnt happen to the races that saw reality be destroyed and remade last time.

TLDR

the altmer and traditional elves are arogent ♥♥♥♥♥ who think there better than everyone and hate humans for being able to acept being flawed mortal beings

[Ihateeverybody]

That is one of the best writeups I have seen in the discussions of the Lore! Kudos.

[Draughir]

I learned a thing or two about Elder Scrolls lore here. Thank you.

[travel]

Five star guide please

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by Genocide:

Originally posted by travel:

I know the aldmeri dominion is of bosmer and high elves and apparently kicked ass and left tamriel and the empire in the sorry state its in.

Its a shame ulfric is so racist he seems a competent general for the nords. I know the white gold concordat was the ceasefire that outlawed talos worship for some reason i dont know why, and thalomar secret agents undermine the empire under the guise of enforcing this law.

Nords are just one side of tamriel right? Ive basically played the nord story, not the hammerfell, elf or argonian or khajit stories and homelands?

It goes deeper with Ulfric, he was working with the elves.

No he wasn't, that dossier calls him an asset, not an agent.
Ulfric is easily manipulated, and has a barely controlled temper, and an exaggerated view of his own intelligence, but he is not working for the elves. The Elves tricked him into thinking he lost a city to them (it ws actually captured before he was, but he doesn't seem to know this) and have conveniently slipped him misinformation to keep him angry and committing to civil war (ironically so he can kick the Thalmor out of Skyrim). As such he is destabilising the kingdom, and as such they consider him an ASSET, the dossier also states he is not under their control, but you can manipulate him directly if done carefully (ie do it wrong and he will kill you slowly)

[Valden21]

The roots of the Great War first showed up during the Oblivion Crisis, which was the plot of the fourth game. According to UESP, we're looking at the third incarnation of the Aldmeri Dominion, which had been reduced to a fringe political party by the Tamriel Empire. The Oblivion Crisis gave them their chance to regain the power they once had, and they seized it. They took over the Summerset Isles, seceded from the Empire, and annexed both Valenwood and Elseweyr. Pretty soon after that, skirmishes between Dominion forces and Legion forces began growing more and more frequent. Eventually, the Dominion invaded, triggering an all-out war.

[Solomon Hawk]

I vaguely recall that the High Elves of the Dominion consider themselves descendants of the Aedra (before Lorkan, Magnus and a few others) caused a split which created man and other "lesser" beings which they "hate" or consider worthy only of subjugation or elimination. This in part explains their hatred of the ascended Talos.

Refer to a story (or movie) named, "The Dark Crystal" - 1977 [Jim Henson] (which coincidentally came out a long time ago) which elaborates about two races at odds with each other only to discover much later on they were once One race and became separated races of good vs evil by shattering the crystal (Of Truth) because they wished to live without evil. Then later on, became reunited when the crystal was "healed" by a "hero" from one of the lesser races. (Because one cannot exist without the other).
They were the Mystics and the Skeksis.
In this, I saw the similarity of The Dominion high elves like that of the Skeksis.

This is what I believe to be the basis of the the conflict between men and mer.

The High Elves wish to return to their "lost" divinity, but fail to realize the Daedra who they see as evil were once part of the Aedra who have become separated. (Might explain why the Deadric lords have a peculiar interest in the Dragonborn).
They never will return to divinity unless the Aedra and Daedra become one again.

[travel]

To be fair the deadra are...powerful and usually malicious

[Ihateeverybody]

More importantly, they're missing the greater truth. The schism/split happened for a reason. The whole; the Oneness that exists for an eternal fraction of such minuscule moment before fracturing again; why? Because at some point there will be a choice of some sort that cannot be agreed upon. Usually it's what's for dinner. Then the cycle begins anew.

Edit: Adjusted punction to prevent linkage code from activating.

[travel]

so snow elves are dwarves are falmer? They invaded skyrim long ago and the nords exterminated them.

The elves and men have a long going back distrust based on a system of mutual hostility and attitude thats broken out into all out war that has ceased.

[voehringer_nitron]

Snow elves are Falmer, but not Dwarves. Dwarves are also known as Dwemer or "Deep elves" because they lived underground. The Dwemer disappeared thousands of years ago.

When the Nords were conquering Skyrim, the Falmer went to the Dwemer for help. They agreed, but forced the Falmer to eat toxic mold/fungus, which rendered them blind, and then enslaved them. Centuries of slavery/torture turned them violent and cruel.

[travel]

Most of the lore in the game suggests that there is a relationship between dwemer and falmer perhaps. I cant recall all of it now, but the fact they inhabit dwemer ruins constantly should be something right? Snow elves were thousands of years ago right?

[lizrdfishr]

Von Faustien that is a magnificent write up.

Thank you.

For me, I play as Bosmer and I play to live well and murder Thalmor.

I need to know only one thing...

Where they are... :)