How do Bretons exist, if the race of the mother determines the race of the child being born?

[cl656]

Also, there is a lore book in the game that explains he Septim Dynasty, and Pelagius Septim III married a Dunmer, and they had a Breton child together.

Is this just a hole in the lore?

[Ihateeverybody]

If you actually dig into the lore, its riddled with holes.

To pull one out that you mentioned. I am going off a real hazy memory but I think Peleg 3 kid died or something and his Empress and the kid she got from her Guard Captain Actually Suceeded which breaks the Septim Bloodline and the Amulet of Kings stuff and the Dragonborn crap. I gave up trying to follow it ages ago.

But you know, if that's your jam. Put it on your toast and enjoy.

Edit: And to answer your question....Dragon Break (BECAUSE WE SAID SO, Now eat your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ toast)

[HazakTheMad]

Actually the son is not a breton, he just ages like one.
He is described as half-elven, not an actual breton.

[alexander_dougherty]

Actually the lore says the child USUALLY is the race of the mother.
There is a lot of flexibility in the word "usually".

[Joan]

Originally posted by Ihateeverybody:

If you actually dig into the lore, its riddled with holes.

To pull one out that you mentioned. I am going off a real hazy memory but I think Peleg 3 kid died or something and his Empress and the kid she got from her Guard Captain Actually Suceeded which breaks the Septim Bloodline and the Amulet of Kings stuff and the Dragonborn crap. I gave up trying to follow it ages ago.

But you know, if that's your jam. Put it on your toast and enjoy.

Edit: And to answer your question....Dragon Break (BECAUSE WE SAID SO, Now eat your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ toast)

"Very few realize that being Dragonborn is not a simple matter of heredity - being the blessing of Akatosh Himself, it is beyond our understanding exactly how and why it is bestowed. Those who become Emperor and light the Dragonfires are surely Dragonborn - the proof is in the wearing of the Amulet and the lighting of the Fires. But were they Dragonborn and thus able to do these things - or was the doing the sign of the blessing of Akatosh descending upon them? All that we can say is that it is both, and neither - a divine mystery."

"The line of Septims have all been Dragonborn, of course, which is one reason the simplistic notion of it being hereditary has become so commonplace. But we know for certain that the early Cyrodilic rulers were not all related. There is also no evidence that Reman Cyrodiil was descended from Alessia, although there are many legends that would make it so, most of them dating from the time of Reman and likely attempts to legitimize his rule".


That's from the Book Of The Dragonborn so make of that what you will.

[fauxpas]

Something to consider is that despite the fluff Bretons are men, not mer; and the mer-ish features were bred into the bloodline over centuries.


This actually makes sense with the fact that one's race is determined by the mother as female human slaves are far more likely to keep babies sired by elven fathers than a noble elven woman who becomes pregnant with one of her slaves.

[Shotgun Solutions]

Originally posted by JinJay:

Originally posted by Ihateeverybody:

If you actually dig into the lore, its riddled with holes.

To pull one out that you mentioned. I am going off a real hazy memory but I think Peleg 3 kid died or something and his Empress and the kid she got from her Guard Captain Actually Suceeded which breaks the Septim Bloodline and the Amulet of Kings stuff and the Dragonborn crap. I gave up trying to follow it ages ago.

But you know, if that's your jam. Put it on your toast and enjoy.

Edit: And to answer your question....Dragon Break (BECAUSE WE SAID SO, Now eat your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ toast)

"Very few realize that being Dragonborn is not a simple matter of heredity - being the blessing of Akatosh Himself, it is beyond our understanding exactly how and why it is bestowed. Those who become Emperor and light the Dragonfires are surely Dragonborn - the proof is in the wearing of the Amulet and the lighting of the Fires. But were they Dragonborn and thus able to do these things - or was the doing the sign of the blessing of Akatosh descending upon them? All that we can say is that it is both, and neither - a divine mystery."

"The line of Septims have all been Dragonborn, of course, which is one reason the simplistic notion of it being hereditary has become so commonplace. But we know for certain that the early Cyrodilic rulers were not all related. There is also no evidence that Reman Cyrodiil was descended from Alessia, although there are many legends that would make it so, most of them dating from the time of Reman and likely attempts to legitimize his rule".


That's from the Book Of The Dragonborn so make of that what you will.

Yep, and then they retconned the lore in ESO and made being Dragonborn absolutely hereditary. So until the next retcon we must assume that ALL Cyrodiilic emperors are descendants of Alessia.
And yes ESO is lore according to the company.

[fauxpas]

As for the actual post body as opposed to the title, that is largely explained by the unreliable narrator principle.

[HazakTheMad]

Originally posted by Shotgun Solutions:

Originally posted by JinJay:

"Very few realize that being Dragonborn is not a simple matter of heredity - being the blessing of Akatosh Himself, it is beyond our understanding exactly how and why it is bestowed. Those who become Emperor and light the Dragonfires are surely Dragonborn - the proof is in the wearing of the Amulet and the lighting of the Fires. But were they Dragonborn and thus able to do these things - or was the doing the sign of the blessing of Akatosh descending upon them? All that we can say is that it is both, and neither - a divine mystery."

"The line of Septims have all been Dragonborn, of course, which is one reason the simplistic notion of it being hereditary has become so commonplace. But we know for certain that the early Cyrodilic rulers were not all related. There is also no evidence that Reman Cyrodiil was descended from Alessia, although there are many legends that would make it so, most of them dating from the time of Reman and likely attempts to legitimize his rule".


That's from the Book Of The Dragonborn so make of that what you will.

Yep, and then they retconned the lore in ESO and made being Dragonborn absolutely hereditary. So until the next retcon we must assume that ALL Cyrodiilic emperors are descendants of Alessia.
And yes ESO is lore according to the company.

Actually it wasn't retconned, there are two Dragonborns, the decendents of the dragonborn
emperors (who are also emperors) and those with the soul of a dragon which are randomly
chosen by Alkosh (can't remember the name of the Cyrodiilic version).

[HazakTheMad]

The dragonborn emperors are decendents of Alessia.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by HazakTheMad:

The dragonborn emperors are decendents of Alessia.

Most of Tamriel is descendants of Alessia.
Given how far back she was, and how much interbreeding there is.

[HazakTheMad]

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

Originally posted by HazakTheMad:

The dragonborn emperors are decendents of Alessia.

Most of Tamriel is descendants of Alessia.
Given how far back she was, and how much interbreeding there is.

I mean direct descendants that still have control of the throne.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by HazakTheMad:

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

Most of Tamriel is descendants of Alessia.
Given how far back she was, and how much interbreeding there is.

I mean direct descendants that still have control of the throne.

I have never understood the phrase "Direct Descendants", either you are descended from someone or you're not... Being descended from someone's sibling or cousin is not being descended from them...

Having control of the throne is another matter, and usually not as connected to being of the correct bloodline..
Well connected, but it's surprising how often the throne leaves a bloodline despite there being known members of it

[HazakTheMad]

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

Originally posted by HazakTheMad:

I mean direct descendants that still have control of the throne.

I have never understood the phrase "Direct Descendants", either you are descended from someone or you're not... Being descended from someone's sibling or cousin is not being descended from them...

Having control of the throne is another matter, and usually not as connected to being of the correct bloodline..

The dragonborn emperors is just what they are called, there is nothing special about them.
The Dovahkiin is chosen by the great Akosh, not whether you are of the bloodline.

[Valden21]

What a lot of people don't realize is that there are two different definitions of "Dragonborn" in play. Definition #1 is Dragonborn like in the game itself: someone who's soul is that of a dragon and who learns and uses the Thu'um the same way that dragons do. Examples: Miraak, Reman Cyrodill 1, Tiber Septim, and the player character. Definition #2 is just someone born into a ruling family that was founded by someone who fit definition #1. So all the other Septims are examples of definition #2, because the founder of the line was someone who fits definition #1.

[HazakTheMad]

Originally posted by Valden21:

What a lot of people don't realize is that there are two different definitions of "Dragonborn" in play. Definition #1 is Dragonborn like in the game itself: someone who's soul is that of a dragon and who learns and uses the Thu'um the same way that dragons do. Examples: Miraak, Reman Cyrodill 1, Tiber Septim, and the player character. Definition #2 is just someone born into a ruling family that was founded by someone who fit definition #1. So all the other Septims are examples of definition #2, because the founder of the line was someone who fits definition #1.

That is what I have been saying.
You actually get this.