SSEEdit, conflict solving...how to do it?

[Ghatotkacha]

Hello everyone, i hope you are well. :)

So i'm trying to create a final modlist, after 2 years of mod testing, and i've found my preferences. I'm also following reguralry GamerPoets videos, and i'm watching again this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6T4rKRAgwo

Here he states that until that point of the video's release, forget all the other tutorials, no matter the source. He also states that do not clean every single mod. When i asked for advice from the GamerPoets videos' creator, he pointed to the xEdit Discord channel, especially to the 'cathedral of the method'.

But at xEdit group in Discord, all the guys stated to clean ALL mods. add 1 mod, start to clean with quickshowconflicts and do the conflict handling by myself. they also stated that i must know how to do it, which conflict is okay and which is not, and that i will feel it in time, how to do it properly.

Maybe it's just for me, but it's a bit foggy, and the guys at Discord are not so friendly and helpful when it comes to tips&tricks about Skyrim SE modding. I'm trying my best all the time, i'm following guides, and trying to use properly xEdit, LOOT, Wryebash and MO2.

Another issue was when i asked them, 'when should i use a patch for 2 mods'? They answered, again, that "you should know when to use patch and when modgroup". But these are a bit rough for me, idk when should i use those, and which mods need truly cleaning. :S

Can i ask for a bit of an advice? Or can you push me to the right direction? When i asked the others at Discord about the tome of xedit, they said that it's not useless, but i'm wasting my time to read it - i should better follow the pinned messages at the cathedral of the method (where you can find obiously less serious pins like t-shirt designs and a pray for the xEdit creator). There was only 2 useful data: the creator's own method with quickshowconflits and how to create a modgroup. everything else is not helping. :S
I feel a bit like they separate me because idk anything deeper about xEdit.

I really wish to know what and when to solve manually with xEdit, but i think i'm a bit potato for this. My final goal is to create a totally CTD and conflict free modlist, and run the game without any problem.

My mod list containst only a couple of mods, like vivid weathers, guards armor replacer, and so on, with the total of 16 active plugins.

Can you help me somehow, please? Many thanks in advance! And of course, have a lovely holiday seasons for you and your family!

Cheers,

Ren

[Jonny Sparta]

Im pretty basic when it comes to my xedit use. I just use the auto clean exe on the masters and I just rely on mo2 conflict indicator for conflict resolution. Removing one of the offenders or finding a compat patch.

[Chef]

Ren, I'm one of the original Preists of the Method on the xEdit discord, I just havnt been around much lately. I would be happy to help out some.

Give me an hour or two to gather some links and I will try and give you some examples.

Also, I just woke up and need to get the brain up to speed. We should be able to get you going though.

[Ghatotkacha]

Originally posted by Chef:

Ren, I'm one of the original Preists of the Method on the xEdit discord, I just havnt been around much lately. I would be happy to help out some.

Give me an hour or two to gather some links and I will try and give you some examples.

Also, I just woke up and need to get the brain up to speed. We should be able to get you going though.

Hey Chef,

Thank you very much! I'm waiting! :)

[Mephitic]

Read the pinned messages in the xEdit Discord "cathedral-of-the-method" channel, and also the Tome of xEdit.

What you will find is that not all conflicts are bad things, and that the ones that do need patching requires personal experience and preference.

Many, if not most, conflicts can be resolved with a load order change, or perhaps don't need a patch - again, not all conflicts are bad things, it just means one record taking precedence over another in game.

elwaps' guide in the above-mentioned pinned message is a good place to start.

For illustration, I have 378 mods with 238 plugins and I have made only four patches. I have followed The Method but only up to a certain point. I have not hidden all conflicts with modgroups because I don't see the point of making a patch to resolve innocuous conflicts.

The point of The Method is to get eyes on all conflicts - to be aware of them, not necessarily to resolve them.

If you have installed the recommended patches already available on Nexus for your mod list and sorted the list with LOOT, you will very likely have a stable and good-looking game. If you discover a particular conflict that you think requires resolution, asking in the xEdit discord is a good option.

[Ghatotkacha]

Originally posted by Mephitic:

Read the pinned messages in the xEdit Discord "cathedral-of-the-method" channel, and also the Tome of xEdit.

What you will find is that not all conflicts are bad things, and that the ones that do need patching requires personal experience and preference.

Many, if not most, conflicts can be resolved with a load order change, or perhaps don't need a patch - again, not all conflicts are bad things, it just means one record taking precedence over another in game.

elwaps' guide in the above-mentioned pinned message is a good place to start.

For illustration, I have 378 mods with 238 plugins and I have made only four patches. I have followed The Method but only up to a certain point. I have not hidden all conflicts with modgroups because I don't see the point of making a patch to resolve innocuous conflicts.

The point of The Method is to get eyes on all conflicts - to be aware of them, not necessarily to resolve them.

If you have installed the recommended patches already available on Nexus for your mod list and sorted the list with LOOT, you will very likely have a stable and good-looking game. If you discover a particular conflict that you think requires resolution, asking in the xEdit discord is a good option.

Hey Mephitic,

Thanks for your answer!
Honestly, i used all the mentioned softwares to make the good gameplay experience...reinstalled the game like 20 times already, and tried tofollow guides as possible. Still, had CTDs, had issues. And when i headed to Discord to the xEdit team, a lot of my questions just dogded with the "you should know that by now" sort of answer.

[Chef]

Mephitic knows what their talking about also.

[Mephitic]

Chef is by far the best resident expert on these forums. I have experience but not as much as he - betwixt the two of us and the others on the xEdit Discord we should be able to help you with specifics - just ask.

[Ghatotkacha]

Okay, the first one:

What about manual conflict sort? I'm trying to understand the whole picture.
WHen i'm using quickshowconflits, it shows a bunch of conflicts. For example now, with Vivid Weathers, and with the extended snow.
Although, it shows the listed mods with orange colour. But it shows it, as a conflicting one.
When i'm heading into the mods' esp to check what's the conflict, i see Vivid Weathers SE - classic.esp overwrites Vivid weatherse.esp. only orange issues here, again.
Should i make the manual cleaning here as well? what are the colour codes at xEdit?

[Chef]

Alright, I just finished typing out a long response and realized I hadn't answered your original questions. With 16 plugins this shouldnt be too hard (famous last words), so lets try and deal with specific issues you have. Solving those should start to give you an idea how to do more serious stuff in the future.

Lets start with the basics. In the upper right hand corner of LOOT there is a menu with 3 verticle dots. Go there and select "Copy Load Order" and then paste all of that here.

Also, it should be noted that part of the reason people have been vague is that some parts of conflict resolution come down to personal preference. But we can walk through that also.

[Mephitic]

re: Vivid Weathers: that's an example of an innocuous conflict. The Classic esp has records that need to "win" over records in the base esp to get that classic look. The base esp uses the game engine's Filmic Color Correction and the Classic turns it off and compensates with values in some records.

You'll see that the base esp overrides records in the base game's esm's - that is required to make the particular weathers work, of course.

Then, the Classic esp overrides some of the image space and region records to account for turning off the Filmic Color Correction feature of the game engine.

In this case, the conflicts between Vivid's base and Classic esp are intentional and require no patching.

[edit] And this is where the specifics of The Method come into the picture, too. The Method will tell you to create a modgroup from those two mods to hide conflicts. This does more than simply hide the conflicts, though that is one intended outcome. It also allows you to identify other conflicts that may occur later in your load order where Vivid may conflict with other mods -- conflicts that are not between these two versions of Vivid, but conflict with some other mod.

[Ghatotkacha]

my mod list at the moment (added a few more in the meantime):

0 0 Skyrim.esm
1 1 Update.esm
2 2 Dawnguard.esm
3 3 HearthFires.esm
4 4 Dragonborn.esm
5 5 Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp
6 6 SMIM-SE-Merged-All.esp
7 7 ELFX - Exteriors.esp
8 8 SkyUI_SE.esp
9 9 EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
10 a Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
11 b Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp
12 c Vivid WeathersSE.esp
13 d Better Shrouded Armour - SSE.esp
14 e ebmailplugin.esp
15 f Guards_Armor_Replacer.esp
16 10 Atlas Compass Tweaks.esp
17 11 Atlas Legendary.esp
18 12 DIS_Heavy_Legion.esp
19 13 WICO - Immersive People.esp
20 14 WICO - USSEP Compatible Patch.esp
21 15 BosmerArmorMATY743.esp
22 16 WICO - Immersive Character.esp
23 17 WICO - Immersive Dawnguard.esp
24 18 WICO - Wild Hunt Gears.esp
25 19 Vivid Weathers - Extended Rain.esp
26 1a Vivid Weathers SE - Classic.esp
27 1b Vivid Weathers SE - Extended Snow.esp
28 1c Summermyst - Enchantments of Skyrim.esp
29 1d ELFXEnhancer.esp

[Chef]

@ren Yea, your going to need a couple of patches. A suggestion first though. I would drop Immersive Armors. It modifies leveled lists in slightly different ways than the other mods you have that change armors and it can make it difficult to patch.

@Mephetic The above list looks like a great reason to use a Bashed Patch I think. Thoughts? I've been out of the loop for awhile.

[Ghatotkacha]

To get a full picture, i'm planning to create something like this in the end. Until i reached my goal - the mentioned, 100% working modlist - i'm just testing it with new starts to check how it goes.

0 0 Skyrim.esm
1 1 Update.esm
2 2 Dawnguard.esm
3 3 HearthFires.esm
4 4 Dragonborn.esm
5 5 Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm
6 6 Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp
7 7 BSAssets.esm
8 8 BSHeartland.esm
9 9 BS_DLC_patch.esp
10 a Forgotten DungeonsSSE.esm
11 b Falskaar.esm
12 c Gray Fox Cowl.esm
13 d Vigilant.esm
14 e Wyrmstooth.esp
15 f SMIM-SE-Merged-All.esp
16 10 ELFX - Exteriors.esp
17 11 Lore Weapon Expansion - Daedric Crescent.esp
18 12 Lore Weapon Expansion - Goldbrand.esp
19 13 Lore Weapon Expansion - Relics of the Crusader.esp
254 FE 0 Qw_BeyondSkyrimBruma_USSEP Hotfix Patch.esp
20 14 EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
21 15 Dark_Forests.esp
22 16 MoonAndStar_MAS.esp
23 17 Immersive Sounds - Compendium.esp
24 18 Undeath.esp
25 19 Weapons Armor Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
26 1a Cutting Room Floor.esp
27 1b Book Covers Skyrim.esp
28 1c Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
29 1d WACCF_Armor and Clothing Extension.esp
30 1e konahrik_accoutrements.esp
31 1f Book Covers Skyrim - Lost Library.esp
32 20 dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp
33 21 dD-Larger Splatter Size.esp
34 22 dD-Reduced Wound Size.esp
35 23 DeadlySpellImpacts.esp
36 24 Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp
37 25 Lore Weapon Expansion.esp
38 26 SkyUI_SE.esp
39 27 Vivid WeathersSE.esp
254 FE 1 Qw_ACE_CRF Patch.esp
254 FE 2 Qw_BookCoversSkyrim_CRF Patch.esp
254 FE 3 Qw_DeadlySpellImpacts_ISC Patch.esp
254 FE 4 Qw_ISC_CRF Patch.esp
254 FE 5 Qw_WACCF_ISC Patch.esp
40 28 WarmongerArmory_DLC.esp
41 29 WarmongerArmory_Vanilla.esp
42 2a WarmongerArmory_LeveledList.esp
43 2b AHZmoreHUD.esp
44 2c AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
45 2d Death Mountain part2.esp
46 2e Dark_Eden_Forests_Solstheim.esp
47 2f Summermyst - Enchantments of Skyrim.esp
48 30 Atlas Compass Tweaks.esp
49 31 beltfastenedquivers.esp
50 32 Better Shrouded Armour - SSE.esp
51 33 CL BladeofSacrifice.esp
52 34 DiverseDragonsCollectionSE.esp
53 35 DSerArcheryGameplayOverhaul.esp
54 36 ebmailplugin.esp
55 37 Enhanced 3rd Person Camera V1.2.esp
56 38 FNIS.esp
57 39 Footprints.esp
58 3a HelmetToggle.esp
59 3b Hirsute Beards.esp
254 FE 6 Immersive Dragon Sounds.esp
60 3c MorePainfulNPCDeathSounds.esp
61 3d NightEyeENBFix.esp
62 3e nordicrangerarmor.esp
63 3f Ordinator - More Enchanting Ranks.esp
64 40 PoisoningExtended.esp
65 41 RichMerchantsSkyrim_x10.esp
66 42 Rough Leather Armor.esp
67 43 S3DRocks.esp
68 44 skyforgedWeapons.esp
69 45 Spells Emit Light - Dim.esp
70 46 TakeNotes.esp
71 47 Tanning And Smelting Experience.esp
72 48 TighterBandoliers.esp
73 49 unenchantedDLCclothes.esp
74 4a UnreadBooksGlow.esp
75 4b Veydosebrom.esp
76 4c WACCF_KonahriksAccoutrements.esp
77 4d Wandererarmor.esp
78 4e WetandCold.esp
79 4f WICO - Immersive Character.esp
80 50 WICO - Wild Hunt Gears.esp
81 51 UltimateDragons.esp
82 52 AMatterOfTime.esp
83 53 Rigmor.esp
84 54 Castle Volkihar Rebuilt.esp
85 55 CollegeOfWinterholdImmersive.esp
86 56 DepthsOfSkyrim.esp
87 57 Folkstead.esp
88 58 Skyrim Immersive Creatures Special Edition.esp
89 59 SoundsofSkyrimComplete.esp
90 5a DarkTower.esp
254 FE 7 CWIEnLFXSEPatch.esp
91 5b WICO - Immersive People.esp
254 FE 8 ICOW_WICO_Patch.esp
92 5c Volkihar Knight.esp
93 5d Blues Skyrim.esp
94 5e S3DLandscapes NextGenerationForests.esp
95 5f Helgen Reborn.esp
96 60 Skyrim Bridges.esp
97 61 OpulentThievesGuild.esp
98 62 SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esp
99 63 Fort(ified) Dawnguard.esp
100 64 Legendary Skyrim Crossbows.esp
101 65 Immersive Weapons.esp
102 66 Guards_Armor_Replacer.esp
103 67 PrvtI_HeavyArmory.esp
104 68 DIS_Authentic_Legion.esp
105 69 DIVERSE SKYRIM.esp
106 6a OBIS SE.esp
107 6b OBIS Loot SE.esp
108 6c OBIS SE - Immersive Weapons Patch.esp
109 6d ZIA_Complete Pack.esp
110 6e AKSkyrimUnderground.esp
111 6f Populated Cities Towns Villages Legendary.esp
112 70 TheChoiceIsYours.esp
113 71 Atlas Map Markers.esp
114 72 Immersive Encounters.esp
254 FE 9 OpulentThievesGuildPatch.esp
115 73 SkyrimSewers.esp
116 74 ThiefEyes_SSE.esp
117 75 Skyrim Better Roads and Bridges - All In One - Merged.esp
118 76 fallentreebridgesSSE.esp
119 77 Unique Uniques.esp
120 78 S3DTrees NextGenerationForests.esp
121 79 JKs Skyrim.esp
122 7a JKs Skyrim_Dawn of Skyrim_Patch.esp
123 7b WindstadMine.esp
124 7c Inigo.esp
125 7d Dawnguard Sentries SE.esp
126 7e HopesabandonSSE 1.1.esp
127 7f LeftHandRings-1stPersonView.esp
128 80 Atlas Legendary.esp
129 81 Cloaks - Player Only.esp
130 82 Immersive Patrols II.esp
131 83 BosmerArmorMATY743.esp
132 84 Telengard.esp
133 85 Billyro's Weapons.esp
254 FE a Qw_ACE_BSHeartland Patch.esp
254 FE b BSHeartland - Unofficial Patch.esp
134 86 Tools of Kagrenac.esp
135 87 TOK_CWI_Patch.esp
136 88 AMX_TelvanniSpellsword.esp
137 89 Convenient Horses.esp
254 FE c Distinct Elven Armor Variants.esp
138 8a Dr_Bandolier.esp
254 FE d BandolierForNPC.esp
139 8b Pauldrons.esp
140 8c DawnguardArsenal.esp
141 8d Cloaks - Player Only - Dawnguard.esp
142 8e WICO - Immersive Dawnguard.esp
143 8f JKs & Dawn of Skyrim - Riften Patch.esp
144 90 Jornheim.esp
145 91 Missives.esp
146 92 AncientElvenBow.esp
147 93 Andromeda - Unique Standing Stones of Skyrim.esp
148 94 StormLord.esp
149 95 CL BladeofWoe.esp
150 96 CL Chillrend.esp
151 97 CL Ebonyblade.esp
152 98 CL Nettlebane.esp
254 FE e CWICRFSEPatch.esp
254 FE f Qw_WACCF_LSCrossbows Patch.esp
153 99 DragonBoneWeaponsComplete.esp
154 9a EbonyWolfArmor_SkyforgeEbonyWeapons.esp
155 9b KrittaKittyHorsesForSSE.esp
156 9c LeftHandRings.esp
157 9d More Weapons Please.esp
158 9e NoldorArmor.esp
159 9f PrvtIRoyalArmory.esp
160 a0 StormcloakHeroGear.esp
161 a1 TCIY_BCS Patch.esp
162 a2 Ulags Legacy.esp
163 a3 ValiantNordBow.esp
164 a4 Zim's Improved Dremora.esp
165 a5 ApotheosisDemo.esp
254 FE 10 Qw_S3DTrees_CRF Patch.esp
166 a6 The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
254 FE 11 BandolierForNPC - Cutting Room Floor Patch.esp
254 FE 12 BandolierForNPC - Immersive Armors Patch.esp
254 FE 13 BandolierForNPC - Realistic Enchantements.esp
254 FE 14 BandolierForNPC - Weapons Armor Clothing Clutter Patch.esp
167 a7 HereticArmorPub.esp
168 a8 FireglassArmory.esp
169 a9 icepenguinworldmapclassic.esp
254 FE 15 SoS_VividWeathers_Patch.esp
254 FE 16 Missives - Heartland.esp
254 FE 17 Falskaar - SkyTEST and Bruma Patch.esp
254 FE 18 Falskaar - SkyTEST Patch.esp
254 FE 19 Falskaar - Bruma Patch.esp
254 FE 1a Falskaar - Bug Fixes.esp
254 FE 1b CH GFC_BRU_FAL_VIG_WYR.esp
254 FE 1c Bruma - SkyTEST Patch.esp
170 aa RaceMenu.esp
171 ab RaceMenuPlugin.esp
172 ac StormLightning.esp
173 ad The Eyes Of Beauty - Elves Edition.esp
174 ae TheEyesOfBeauty.esp
175 af CC'sEnhancedOreVeinsSSE-HearthfirePatch.esp
254 FE 1d DIS_Authentic_Legion_WACCF.esp
176 b0 SPTDiverseGuardsSkyrimSE.esp
177 b1 Undriel_Everlight.esp
178 b2 Darkend.esp
179 b3 MHdunSky001.esp
254 FE 1e Qw_S3DLandscapes_CRF Patch.esp
180 b4 MoonAndStar_Undeath_compat.esp
181 b5 shadowscaleset.esp
182 b6 BlackSacramentArmor.esp
254 FE 1f CRF + Bridges Patch.esp
183 b7 OBIS SE Patrols Addon.esp
184 b8 My Home Is Your Home.esp
185 b9 Evil MasterMind Armor.esp
186 ba TheHermit.esp
187 bb BloodWitchArmor.esp
188 bc Kynreeve Armor.esp
189 bd Medusa and Drakul Armors.esp
190 be Contractor Armor.esp
191 bf DragonCarvedArmorSet.esp
192 c0 FireBurns.esp
193 c1 Mavari Armor.esp
194 c2 NoctisWingBow.esp
195 c3 INFERNAL FLAME.esp
196 c4 Imperious - Races of Skyrim.esp
197 c5 Ordinator - Perks of Skyrim.esp
254 FE 20 CWIOrdinatorPatchSSE.esp
198 c6 Ordinator - Beyond Skyrim Bruma Patch.esp
199 c7 Sacrosanct - Vampires of Skyrim.esp
200 c8 Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
254 FE 21 ELFX Fixes.esp
201 c9 ELFXEnhancer.esp
SoS_ELFX+Enhancer_Patch.esp
202 ca RealisticWaterTwo.esp
254 FE 22 Realistic Water Two - Landscape Fixes.esp
254 FE 23 Telengard - Realistic Water Two 2.0.0 Patch.esp
254 FE 24 RealisticWaterTwo - Beyond Skyrim Bruma.esp
254 FE 25 RealisticWaterTwo - Falskaar.esp
203 cb RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Falskaar.esp
204 cc RealisticWaterTwo - Wyrmstooth.esp
205 cd RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Wyrmstooth.esp
206 ce WACCF_BashedPatchLvlListFix.esp
207 cf Sum_WACCF_Patch.esp
208 d0 Bashed Patch, 0.esp

[smr1957]

Took a look - Chef and Mephitic both know a fair amount, so I'll leave it in their hands unless I see some glaring error.

I'll just add this, the auto functions in xEdit are fine for small load orders -(those below the plugin limit), as are most tools that automate things such as Wrye Bash and the creation of leveled lists. BUT, if you ever build beyond that level to larger builds, you will have to know how to do many of the automatic functions yourself, as they are prone to errors in large builds. But start small, see what xEdit looks like and what records are being changed, and learn from that.

Indeed, if you reach the level of extremely large builds, you may find that what is being posted as accepted wisdom of how to do things only applies to average size load orders - good for the average gamer 99% of the time, but not really totally accurate, and completely non-applicable to the more advanced builds.

Mephitic, did you forget about me? LOL!

[Chef]

Well, that 2nd list changes things. if you want to resolve all this stuff yourself you are making a commitment.

Here is a thing I wrote up awhile ago.

I will be using my workflow for SSE as an example.

This also assumes that the first step you have completed is to install USSEP and create a Modgroup for USSEP and the DLC's such that no conflicts are shown. ----EDIT: The patch now comes with a Modgroup for this purpose, when I wrote this that was not the case.-------

It should also be noted that to properly use The Method, you add 1 mod at a time, adding more will make things way more complicated than they need to be.

Add Mod A.

Sort with LOOT.

Open xEdit using the -veryquickshowconflicts argument

Take a look at the conflicts that exist and see if changing load order would make a difference in how those conflicts may be resolved. If so, create metadata so that they are properly sorted by LOOT.

Assuming that there are things that need to be patched, you create 1 esp/ESL plugin that resolves conflicts between Mod A and each individual mod that needs to be patched. As an example, ModA-USSEP, ModA-Dawnguard, ModA-Dragonborn. This is essential for a truly modular setup.

After creating said plugin and patching 1 record, check the header of your plugin. I then make sure that the 2 plugins I am patching are masters of that plugin (later on there will be multiple masters of your patch plugin as you will be patching patches).

Then Sort Masters. Since LOOT reads that information, it will help with maintaining your load order as you go.

Continue patching.

After you have patched all the records that need it, exit xEdit.

In MO2 create an empty mod called Mod A Patches.

Move all plugins that you have created into that mod and place it directly below Mod A.

Sort with LOOT.

Open xEdit using the -veryquickshowconflicts argument

Once all conflicts that need to be resolved through patches are resolved, and remaining conflicts are supposed to be there, create a Modgroup. Modgroups should also be small and preferably between as few plugins as possible to hide conflicts. As your load order gets larger you will have multiple Modgroups per added mod. I try and name them so its obvious what they are for.

Close xEdit.

Move Modgroups into the appropriate mod file in the left pane of MO2 from Overwrite.

Open xEdit using the -veryquickshowconflicts argument. The result you want is an empty left pane after sorting.

Rinse. Repeat.