Am I the only one who thinks Oblivion is better than Skyrim?

[terry309]

Oblivion had custom magic, oblivion gates, the amazing imperial city (who could forget "welcome to the arena!"?) and the best expansion, Shivering Isles. Plus the armor looked cooler and the combat was more challenging.

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by thehuskygt:

It is how hardcore that game is. My only gripe is the hit detection which is absolutely dreadful.

There is no hit detection FYI. It's all dice rolls. Hit detection and "actiony" combat didn't take over until Oblivion.

Originally posted by thehuskygt:

In newer games (Skyrim) there is simply no concequence; you don't have to think before you do something. Everything is handed to you with little to no effort. You are this super-powerful person than nothing can defeat.

This is a huge problem I have with Skyrim, and I hope they don't keep it in TES6. I don't want to be The Chosen One and a demigod. I want to be some dude (or lady) that adventures and explores and does things.

[Mr. Whiskers]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Originally posted by thehuskygt:

In newer games (Skyrim) there is simply no concequence; you don't have to think before you do something. Everything is handed to you with little to no effort. You are this super-powerful person than nothing can defeat.

This is a huge problem I have with Skyrim, and I hope they don't keep it in TES6. I don't want to be The Chosen One and a demigod. I want to be some dude (or lady) that adventures and explores and does things.

That's a pretty consistant theme in all of the TES games, especially the modern ones. If it's a problem you have with Skyrim it's one you have with, at the very least, Morrowind and Oblivion as well.

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by Mr. Whiskers:

That's a pretty consistant theme in all of the TES games, especially the modern ones. If it's a problem you have with Skyrim it's one you have with, at the very least, Morrowind and Oblivion as well.

Nah, you're the Hero in Morrowind and Oblivion, but you don't have super powers like you do in Skyrim. You're also not a semi-mythical figure like you are in Skyrim. Even in Morrowind, when you're the prophesied Nerevarine, you're still just some scrub prisoner that fulfills the prophecy; you're not some Chosen One who is inherently better than everyone else. Oblivion you're even more of "just some dude"; Martin is more of the special hero and you're just some bad ass adventurer. I honestly don't even mind eventually killing Alduin, but I wish I wasn't just some Chosen One with special god powers to explain how it happens.

Also, in Skyrim, you're pretty much the only force with agency. Nothing happens in the Civil War without player input, for example. Even if it was quest triggers (do X number of quests and there will be a Civil War battle over Y forts or settlements) it would make the world feel a little more alive, at least in that regard. It also wouldn't make everything hinge on the player finally choosing a side; the war will actually rage like all the NPCs allude to happening. In Morrowind and Oblivion, from my fairly limited playing experience, at least some of the world makes due without you in some ways. Bethesda does a pretty crap job of this in all of their games (TES and FO at least), but I feel like it's gotten worse as time has gone on.

[Mr. Whiskers]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

from my fairly limited playing experience

In all honesty, have you got any experience? All these problems are endemic to at the very least TES, if not RPGs as a genre.


I mean seriously, the entire tutorial of Oblivion is Sir Patrick Stewart jerking you off for 20 minutes telling you how important you are and carrying you through this sewer just based of how special you are because your heroism has already been foretold by his deathdreams and then the trained guard deciding he should just entrust this important and powerful artifact on this important and secret mission to you because you're the hero and not him which makes you better to deliver the message to his boss with no qualifications except you killed some rats. At least in Skyrim you have to do something before you're told you're a chosen hero of the gods and all that.

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by Mr. Whiskers:

In all honesty, have you got any experience? All these problems are endemic to at the very least TES, if not RPGs as a genre.


I mean seriously, the entire tutorial of Oblivion is Sir Patrick Stewart jerking you off for 20 minutes telling you how important you are and carrying you through this sewer just based of how special you are because your heroism has already been foretold by his deathdreams and then the trained guard deciding he should just entrust this important and powerful artifact on this important and secret mission to you because you're the hero and not him which makes you better to deliver the message to his boss with no qualifications except you killed some rats. At least in Skyrim you have to do something before you're told you're a chosen hero of the gods and all that.

Yeah I have experience, and I think you're missing my point. You're the Hero but you aren't The Chosen One. Can you grasp the difference? One is just some dude who is in the right place at the right time, but is otherwise a normal adventurer type. Yeah there is the Prophecy, or a Dream or whatever, but that doesn't mean ♥♥♥♥; it doesn't imbue the Hero with extra power, only with a purpose. The Chosen One is (Dragon) Jesus and has special powers that make him inherently better than his fellow adventuring brethren, no matter what you do.

Look at Baldur's Gate: Yeah the PC is the fragment of a god, but s/he's just a Hero. The fragment doesn't give them powers, it just gives them an impetus, a story hook to engage the player and get involved in the world. Mass Effect 1: Shepard is a bad ass Marine, basically. No special powers that other soldiers or mercs have. You become a Spectre (no special powers, just an extra skill line with small % increases; basically special training for spec ops), and you have a story hook to investigate and eventually save the Citadel. Hero, not Chosen One with god powers. Fallout 1: You're a vault dweller who drew the short straw. No special powers, but you do have the story impetus to go find the water chip; you're the Hero, not some Chosen One. The list goes on and on.

[Mr. Whiskers]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

. You're the Hero but you aren't The Chosen One. Can you grasp the difference?

On the one hand, a chosen one is exactly what you are. You literally get picked out and told "you're the one"

On the other, your whole basis for what is or isn't okay is incredibly arbitrary or just entirely random.

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by Mr. Whiskers:

On the one hand, a chosen one is exactly what you are. You literally get picked out and told "you're the one"

Yet again, what I said goes right over your head. I guess you can't grasp the difference.

[Mr. Whiskers]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Originally posted by Mr. Whiskers:

On the one hand, a chosen one is exactly what you are. You literally get picked out and told "you're the one"

Yet again, what I said goes right over your head. I guess you can't grasp the difference.

Sadly us lowly dummies only have your words to guide us towards your points. If what you say does not line up with what you mean, we're left floundering in the dark, tragically unaware of your genius.

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by Mr. Whiskers:

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Yet again, what I said goes right over your head. I guess you can't grasp the difference.

Sadly us lowly dummies only have your words to guide us towards your points. If what you say does not line up with what you mean, we're left floundering in the dark, tragically unaware of your genius.

What I said is exactly what I meant, so I guess you're stuck floundering in the dark of your own ignorance. Not much I can do to help if you can't engage your higher brain functions. Have fun.

[Mr. Whiskers]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Originally posted by Mr. Whiskers:

Sadly us lowly dummies only have your words to guide us towards your points. If what you say does not line up with what you mean, we're left floundering in the dark, tragically unaware of your genius.

What I said is exactly what I meant, so I guess you're stuck floundering in the dark of your own ignorance. Not much I can do to help if you can't engage your higher brain functions. Have fun.

https://youtu.be/1iL4rMC2CgE

[Vinnie Mack]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Originally posted by thehuskygt:

It is how hardcore that game is. My only gripe is the hit detection which is absolutely dreadful.

There is no hit detection FYI. It's all dice rolls. Hit detection and "actiony" combat didn't take over until Oblivion.

Originally posted by thehuskygt:

In newer games (Skyrim) there is simply no concequence; you don't have to think before you do something. Everything is handed to you with little to no effort. You are this super-powerful person than nothing can defeat.

This is a huge problem I have with Skyrim, and I hope they don't keep it in TES6. I don't want to be The Chosen One and a demigod. I want to be some dude (or lady) that adventures and explores and does things.

you can still do this, by ignoring the main quest. Which is what i usually do. I think Skyrim's story is kind of stupid.

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by Vinnie Mack:

you can still do this, by ignoring the main quest. Which is what i usually do. I think Skyrim's story is kind of stupid.

Yeah, you also have to skip the Civil War if you don't enable Dragons though, since so much hinges on Whiterun. I usually just end up using Skyrim Unbound and turn off being a Dragonborn, shouts, and word walls entirely if I want a "normal" playthrough.

[Krosesuleyk]

I'd say mage builds got the hardest hit over the progression of the series. They went from flying, to running fast, to "better summon Arvak." Losing the ability to make spells also hurt the class a bit, but TES 6 could fix those (or make it worse).

Edit: Who could forget CHEESE FOR EVERYONE!

[raubrey]

Originally posted by PsychoDino:

Originally posted by thehuskygt:

No. I prefer Morrowind over Oblivion. I never liked Oblivion, honestly. But I have to admit Skyrim is the best TES, even if it's simplified over its predecessors. There is something about it that simply absorbs you after you accept it's more "casual" aproach.

What do people love about Morrowind. I never understood.

I have this thing for inventory management simulators.

Seriously though, it's probably more appealing to people who like older RPGs and some of the difficulty mechanics. Before rogue-lites and (all these indie survival games) these other "mechanics" RPGs had a more difficult baseline -- which varied a bit depending on the game. One aspect of this is character building which is pretty decent in Morrowind. For the most part it took a good while to get "over powered" in the game, if it happened at all.

In other terms, I find Morrowind a fair bit richer in story and character development. It may be an illusion and you have to get past outdated graphics (not a problem for me) but I think it is there.

Though I never used a mod on Morrowind until my latest game, this really adds a new layer of joy to it imho http://www.ornitocopter.net/morrowind-overhaul/
I know it isn't perfect and some prefer to add individual mods, but I was amazed at how rich the game looked comparatively. Bascially the thing the game lacks is enemies (quanitiy) on the worldmap -- so some will not like it much on that alone.

[Mr. Whiskers]

Originally posted by Krosesuleyk:

I'd say mage builds got the hardest hit over the progression of the series. They went from flying, to running fast, to "better summon Arvak." Losing the ability to make spells also hurt the class a bit, but TES 6 could fix those (or make it worse).

The problem with making spells is that it's incredibly hard to balance and mages were busted in earlier TES titles for that reason. Mages were leagues better than warriors and rogues in 3 and 4, for example largely because of spell crafting.