Which is the better overhaul?

[sick duck]

I notice that t3ndos skyrim redone has the most endorsments by far, but I hear great things about elaiskeans lot of mods, and requeim says its more old-school with all of its deleveled NPCs and loot

[Zsrai]

Well SkyRe (and PerMa) and Requiem don't work with SE, so that answers your question right away.

[raubrey]

At this point, I would only do an overhaul with Skyrim orig. not only because of valability but also for tech/mod support whether written or from the community. As far as endorsements -- I think more favor SkyRe because it is not as difficult so appealing to a larger basis. Could be wrong but that's my take on it.

[sick duck]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Well SkyRe (and PerMa) and Requiem don't work with SE, so that answers your question right away.

Well I don't know who you're talking to, because I didn't ask about compatibility.

Originally posted by raubrey:

At this point, I would only do an overhaul with Skyrim orig. not only because of valability but also for tech/mod support whether written or from the community. As far as endorsements -- I think more favor SkyRe because it is not as difficult so appealing to a larger basis. Could be wrong but that's my take on it.

I figured as much

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by nobody:

Well I don't know who you're talking to, because I didn't ask about compatibility.

Well you're asking about LE mods on the SE boards, so that question was implied. You can't run any of those overhauls on SE. If you're asking about LE, logic would dictate that you should ask on the LE boards.

Regarding the overhauls in general, I wouldn't bother with any of them and would instead piecemeal together my own set of mods. That way you don't have to fight with compatibility patches (as much) for anything extra you want to add.

[gnewna]

As has been said, assuming from the fact you're asking in the special edition board you're asking for SSE, only EnaiSiaion's mods are available for SSE out of the ones you mentioned. They're awesome, though, use them. (Add in Advanced Adversary Encounters, Vigor (either as well as Smilodon or instead, depending on preference, I believe they're supposed to be pretty much compatible) and Morrowloot Ultimate if you want a really different game.)

If you're asking for Legendary, go with Requiem. It's awesome and it's still pretty actively supported (SkyRe was replaced by PerMa a long time ago and most mods no longer provide patches for it, PerMa is now also unsupported as t3nd0 has retired from modding, and it never really caught on in quite the same way as SkyRe did, so a fair few mods that need patches to work properly with it, don't have them as there's less demand.) It also has an active subreddit which is pretty friendly provided people follow the sub rules, don't ask really basic questions they could have googled, and all the usual etiquette of forums.

Also, well, it's just *awesome*. Played on its default settings it will make you appreciate every advance in skill your character makes, because they will be a scared little baby at the start, as they should be. Vampires will be the stuff of nightmares until quite late game (unless you powergame and cheese your way to an easy win, in which case, meh, why bother?) Even draugr will be too much for you for quite a while - forget the vanilla 'pacing' of the main quest, your character will likely smile and nod politely when asked to go to Bleak Falls Barrow and then run for the hills. Except the hills are full of bandits and death.

[sick duck]

Originally posted by gnewna:

As has been said, assuming from the fact you're asking in the special edition board you're asking for SSE, only EnaiSiaion's mods are available for SSE out of the ones you mentioned. They're awesome, though, use them. (Add in Advanced Adversary Encounters, Vigor (either as well as Smilodon or instead, depending on preference, I believe they're supposed to be pretty much compatible) and Morrowloot Ultimate if you want a really different game.)

If you're asking for Legendary, go with Requiem. It's awesome and it's still pretty actively supported (SkyRe was replaced by PerMa a long time ago and most mods no longer provide patches for it, PerMa is now also unsupported as t3nd0 has retired from modding, and it never really caught on in quite the same way as SkyRe did, so a fair few mods that need patches to work properly with it, don't have them as there's less demand.) It also has an active subreddit which is pretty friendly provided people follow the sub rules, don't ask really basic questions they could have googled, and all the usual etiquette of forums.

Also, well, it's just *awesome*. Played on its default settings it will make you appreciate every advance in skill your character makes, because they will be a scared little baby at the start, as they should be. Vampires will be the stuff of nightmares until quite late game (unless you powergame and cheese your way to an easy win, in which case, meh, why bother?) Even draugr will be too much for you for quite a while - forget the vanilla 'pacing' of the main quest, your character will likely smile and nod politely when asked to go to Bleak Falls Barrow and then run for the hills. Except the hills are full of bandits and death.

Think Enai might be better for me since it is more customizable by the sounds of it. If a quest mod is well balanced and designed for the unmodded skyrim would it also be true for enai skyrim or requiem skyrim? From what I've experienced while modding other games making these overhauls work correctly with other mods adding combat or items is a matter of giving the the overhauls priority in the load order. Is it as easy as that in skyrim, or do I need to learn how to patch?

[gnewna]

For Requiem/SkyRe/PerMa, any mod which adds new stuff to fight will probably be unbalanced (probably too easy in comparison to vanilla areas) as for the most part the things you're fighting will be untouched.

For EnaiSiaion's mods... I'm not sure. I *think* with Smilodon/Wildcat that would apply to any vanilla enemy types (normal NPC races, draugr etc) even in other places, I'm not sure about completely new enemy types (e.g. if a mod adds, IDK, Dwemer (people not machines) or 'zombies' or something). I imagine the mod page would say so. Overall though I think his stuff (except Wildcat/Smilodon) doesn't directly affect combat in the same way the bigger overhauls (esp Requiem) do, except that the enchantment mod will, I believe, apply its enchantments to at least vanilla weapons and possibly mod-added weapons, and those will be in the levelled lists, which is to say - enemies might have interesting new enchantments to use on you.

So, basically, I'm not sure, but you'll probably notice less issues with quest mods, new lands, and so on as his mods are mostly built for maximum compatibility without need for patches.

[sick duck]

I used to know things about requiem, but that was years ago. I'll keep it simple this time.

[Zsrai]

Enai's mods don't really have major conflicts with item and quest mods (Immersive Armors, f. ex.) sinec they are all supposed to be pretty light weight. I think the only one that may have some major conflicts is Summermyst because it changes enchants; I honestly haven't even looked into using it so I'm not sure. Ordinator (perks), Apocalypse (spells), and Smilodon/Wildcat (combat) have all worked with everything that I've used out of the box. I think the only patch I've needed for any of his stuff (I don't use it all) is actually the Apoc/Ordinator patch that he made himself.

[ayrtep]

I just realsed that I never tried requiem, so this post has inspired me to go back to LE and give it a go!

[Midnight]

I'd say that all of the Enai perk mods make you quite OP compared to vanilla unless you also use mods to enhance the difficulty. That said playing on Legendary might take care of that. The increased number of perks also make leveling speed glacial at some point since you'll need way more perks to master a single tree, you might consider mods that add alternate perk point gains with this.

I recommend Populated Skyrim Hell Edition if you want aditional challenge as it changes the entire dynamic of the game when there's 20 bandits where there used to be 6. You really have to play tactically, use chokepoints and consider getting a decent follower to survive that even with various overhauls. This also actually makes use of the heap of utility and CC spells from mod spell packs that are rather useless in vanilla since there's no need for heavy CC when you're fighting at most 2-3 enemies at any given time.

As for magic I heavily recommend Path of Sorcery along with Wearable Spell Tomes instead of Ordinator. Also, from my experience Apocalypse spell pack is still too weak in vanilla unless you use some kind of magic scaling overhaul along with it.

All in all overhaul mod balance is rather subjective thing that you have to experiment with yourself. I like to keep to vanilla as much as possible in both equipment and skills while some people prefer complete and total retooling of vanilla systems.

I like to fight hordes of enemies with devastating spells but that won't be everyone's cup of tea. More customization is better either way though imho.

[gnewna]

You aren't supposed to try to master entire trees, you're supposed to specialise (generally one or two branches, not necessarily completely filled out, per skill tree seems about right, depending how many skills you're using), and it's based around the vanilla perk numbers - if you don't have extra perks, you won't be OP with most builds. (But with, say, Smilodon or Vigor + Advanced Adversary Encounters you won't have to worry about being OP even if you do use extra perk mods...)

If you *do* want the odd extra perk, I'm using a pretty nice mod (SSE only, I believe) that somewhat increases the money you receive for bounties and gives you a perk point (IIRC it's two for dragon and maybe giant bounties) when you collect your reward - if you do a lot of bounties this will be super unbalanced, but if you wanted, you could combine it with the Notice Board for more bounties that simply give cash, no perk points. That's how I have mine set up - if I want something to do or to make some money, I'll check out the nearest notice board, if I feel the need for an extra perk point, I'll go and have a chat with an innkeeper. Either way, I have to work for my extra points :)

[Zsrai]

Ordinator is set up so that you don't completely fill out each tree; if you read the perks each "branch" has a theme. For instance, why would you fill in the Weapon + Spell branch in Alteration, or Enchanting, as a pure mage? Speaking of Enchanting, it has a whole branch (or two?) dedicated to Scrolls and Staves. If you're not using those, you only need to go up basically 1 branch for the basic Enchanting goodies. Smithing is the same way, with basically 1 branch for "generic" smithing and then another one for "misc." stuff and a third for the dwarven cannon thing.

All of this allows you to specialize in certain roles/styles within each tree, and combine some to make a class type for yourself. You can make an offensive Crusader/Cleric with heavy Restoration, but with a different set of perks you can make a disease based spell caster (Shaman, Necromancer?) while still having Restoration as a Major Skill (to steal the terminology of past TES games).

[gnewna]

Exactly. My last playthrough I just went up the Vancian branch of the Alteration tree (and a bit of mage armor because I got bored of light armor), the Daedra branch of Conjuration (and I think one point into Bound Weapons?) and then the rest of my perks went into one handed (swords/maces for a bit of diversity) and speechcraft (merchant stuff, and I think one or two points in the Shouting branch?)

The whole point of Ordinator is you can make very different builds even using the same skill trees (particularly true for mages, I guess, and archers.)