Whats the problem with leveled enemies?

[|Nick]

I mean, I do understand people don't like bandits with glass armor, but isn't the point of skyrim you are able to explore everything? And strong enemies will still kill you if you are too weak.
But doesn't deleveling means you will meet enemies you cant defeat often at the beginning, which is frustrating, if you cant complete a beginners quest, and on-hit-killing most of the enemies at the end, which is totally boring?

And levelled enemies are a constant challenge?

[Zsrai]

Well if the mod is made properly then the "beginner quests" are still beginner quests, since the encounter zones (what determines enemy levels) are still set low. Usually the south is lower level (Whiterun & Falkreath, usually The Rift a bit higher in the ones I've seen) than the north, so running straight up to Winterhold and expecting to clear dungeons is likely out of the equation at level 1.

[Platinumb]

It's a preference thing, i think a lot of people just like de-leveled because it's 'hard' and regardless of if that is fair difficulty or not - 'hard' is for 'pro's'.

In my opinion most of the de-leveling mods make the game feel unbalanced and it's difficulty just for the sake of it.

However, sometimes it's just nice to mix things up, make it really tough. If you've experienced Skyrim hundreds of times and want to see it differently then it's great!
... and then i realise it's just not as fun.

Generally it's a preference thing, though i am happy with leveled enemies.

[Aeonarx]

Originally posted by Shane Moffatt:

It's a preference thing, i think a lot of people just like de-leveled because it's 'hard' and regardless of if that is fair difficulty or not - 'hard' is for 'pro's'.

People like it because it makes world immersive and credible.

[Dustin81]

Sometimes I want to wipe the floor with some enemies and have a challenge with others. Makes all your training not for nothing. Enemies getting stronger just cause you leveled non combat skills is pretty stupid imo.

[MysticMalevolence]

It means that if you spend a bit too long making jewelry or potions or restore stamina, you won't be too harshly punished, since the enemies will remain just as unfair as always.

It further makes it feel more like the world exists outside of the player. In theory it also means you can learn which locations are difficult and prepare accordingly.

In practice, Skyrim has a lot of places that don't make much sense as a delevelled experience because the game expects you to complete it the first time--either narratively or because they lock you in. So you basically have to metagame to avoid them. Also, it really ruins a lot of Alternate Starts, unless you have a lot of followers and/or the patience to deal with one-hit-kill enemies.

(Though I'd note that Skyrim is basically a power fantasy. One-hit killing enemies at the end is the goal!)

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by Shane Moffatt:

It's a preference thing, i think a lot of people just like de-leveled because it's 'hard' and regardless of if that is fair difficulty or not - 'hard' is for 'pro's'.

In my opinion most of the de-leveling mods make the game feel unbalanced and it's difficulty just for the sake of it.

However, sometimes it's just nice to mix things up, make it really tough. If you've experienced Skyrim hundreds of times and want to see it differently then it's great!
... and then i realise it's just not as fun.

Generally it's a preference thing, though i am happy with leveled enemies.

I like the idea but I find that in practice it sucks. At least with the mods I've tried (definitely not all of them) the low end is so high that you can't even do Embershard Mine until level 15+ or so... which is a complete joke. I had to basically run around killing wolves and clearing the outside of bandit camps (since the open world doesn't scale in the same way as dungeons) in order to later come back and kill the bandits inside the areas I had cleared. That's when I just gave up on de-leveled world mods and went back to level scaling.

I wouldn't mind having certain dungeons scale harder than Vanilla, which has pathetic scaling, but the more harsh encounter zones even for early dungeons is just silly and "hard for bragging rights" which I just don't give a damn about.

[FauxFurry]

JRPGs have been handling enemy scaling by region pretty well for decades now.
Enemy Scaling is mostly an excuse to not have to tweak difficulty balance either by region or by enemy type (a general should by higher level than a grunt, for example).

[Ankou]

It's a matter of personal opinion and I understand why people choose both options. Different people like different challenges and loot from video games, and I'm glad both options are available.

I use mods that de-level the dungeons and gear because the world revolving around the Dovahkiin isn't personally fun for me, nor the mountains of valuable gear I'd get that made money and finding upgrades trivial. I like the progression from a nobody who has to flee some dungeons and fears certain enemy types to Hero Legend.

Vanilla leveling annoyed me too, in that even leveling with you it still becomes too easy outside dungeon bosses once I had decent gear. All turning up the difficulty to Master did was turn everything into an unfun damage sponge and tedium does not equal challenge. I'm not being continually challenged by things leveling with me, I can't go anywhere else because every dungeon is the same difficulty, and every enemy type is a similar threat (aside from chaurus reapers. Stendarr have mercy) and I'm bored.
I'm sure great mods like Wildcat help keep the player engaged but SkyRE and ASIS couldn't keep this interesting back in the day and I use Wildcat to similar effect with de-leveled dungeons now.


It does require some reading or trial and error to get started with these mods though. They each have their own idea of pace and it helps to know their logic on how dungeon and enemy levels are designated so you know where to start and what to avoid.
They aren't all the same and I agree they certainly are not for everyone. It's probably much easier to get a balanced game that fits anyone's pace by adding combat mods to a vanilla leveling system.
Actually in general I'd think they'd work best for people with slow playstyle, I've had the most luck with them when I set my character to level 60-70% slower with the uncapper's ini too.

[Mrvecz]

It somewhat makes getting new gear and weapons via leveling pointless if you do just as much or less damage than before. And the damage you do gets smaller as enemies get more armour while their health would still go up.

Not only that if it wont take in account getting new levels through non-combat skills it can spiral in to super hard fights where you are facing high level enemies without lots of combat perks. Making them tough af and possible sync insta kill you.

Skyrim atleast mixes things up, weak enemies are combined with stronger one's. So you feel more powerful than before while there is still someone who can survive a hit or two from you.

[|Nick]

But won't it be too boring running around lategame, doing quests and kill everything with one hit?
Theres no challenge

[alexander_dougherty]

If you could defeat everybody, and everybody grew at the same rate, why bother growing?

Having enemies with a minimum level encourages you to develop, and become more than you already are...... ie stuff becomes available because you levelled up.

[Ankou]

Originally posted by Nick:

But won't it be too boring running around lategame, doing quests and kill everything with one hit?
Theres no challenge

I definitely had this problem with MLU in Oldrim. The zones plateau way too early and it's not fun after level 50ish.
I'm using OMEGA's tweaked Skyrim Revamped - Loot and Encounter Zones, which stops at 120 or something but I can't recommend it to everyone. SR-LEZ without tweaks only goes to level 65 and it and OMEGA ignore quest progression for it's own rules so Bleak Falls Barrow filled with draugr up in the high mountains is level 30. After so many characters I like what it does but for the majority it's just bad design and should be fixed.

Part of the reason I use de-leveled mods though, I do want progression. I like that some things will become easier while others will be dangerous for a very long time. Your hero isn't static, by level 60 the I feel the legendary Dovahkiin should be able to take mobs of common bandits but less mundane things are still very threatening.
If everything is always the same level of challenge to the player, why level up at all? May as well just use the console to set your level to what you want, give points for your favorite perks, and never level up again for all the difference it makes if the difficulty remains the same from level 15 to 100.

There is no challenge in the vanilla leveling system lategame either IME, with perks. abilities, shouts, and smithed up god-tier gear you still outclass most enemies. Less challenge even, since money is abundant and getting the very best gear is as easy as getting any other item.
Mods can fix this completely, and De-leveling is just a certain style of that, A different way of keeping Skyrim interesting to a different group of players.