Any viable reason to use two-handed weapons over one-handed? (WARNING LONG POST)

[Neonetik]

NOTE: Please read the post before answering. I hate sounding rude, but I specifically put a warning on my post so people who can't be bothered to read a bit don't click on it and waste everyone's time with unhelpful answers that run counter to everything I've said. Again, I really don't like sounding rude, but it's getting ridiculous. Thanks.

Hey everyone! I just started playing Skyrim, and my goal was to make a pure warrior class. Before playing games like these, I generally look up what sort of skills exist to plan out where I want to take my character with my limited skill points and stuff, and I originally wanted to make a character that rocked 2 handed warhammers as their main weapon.

However, after doing a bunch of research, it seems like the vast majority of people state that using a one handed weapon and a shield is a far better option than using two-handed weapons, which, in comparison, are not only slower, but also weaker in terms of Damage Per Second, don't work with enchantments as well, don't block as well as a shield, and are less versatile by restricting easy spell use. Even the special "Sweep" ability has been called not particularly useful, as Here are some of the arguments I found.



"1 handed and shield is better. This is because a 1 handed weapon is better than a 2 handed weapon, gameplay wise, when both are smithed to absolute perfection.

A one handed weapon deals exactly 10 damage less than its 2 handed counterpart, 30 if both skills are fully mastered. However, a one handed weapon attacks about 40-50% faster (3 sword hits = 2 greatsword hits and so on).

So, in the same timeframe, a base dragonbone sword will deal 135 damage and a greatsword will deal 150. Seems like the greatsword is better, right?

Now, for improved, enchanted weapons

A fully upgraded, maximized dragonbone sword will deal approximately 700 damage per hit with gear), add 256 chaos (which translates to an average of 192 damage per strike) and 101 lifeleech, totalling 993 damage. A similarly made greatsword will do 120 damage more for 1113 damage. In the same frame, now, a one handed sword is dealing 2979 damage in the same frame that the two handed sword deals 2226 damage. Even if the on handed weapon attacked only 15% faster, it will be doing better DPS. In fact, some one handed power attacks are at twice the speed of 2 handed ones, so in the same span of time, a 1 handed sword can do 3348 damage compared to 1932 damage from 2 handed.

This is because the enhancements to all the weapons are linear enhancements, so a weapon with faster attack speed gains more DPS per upgrade than one that is slower. As a one handed weapon already has higher DPS, and a shield blocks better than a 2 handed weapon, its prettty obvious that 1 hand + shield is better. So, when a one handed weapon and two handed weapon is imporoved to around + 10 base damage, their DPS is pretty similar and further improvements skew the DPS to 1 handed. This actually makes a 1 handed sword have the greatest improved DPS and the Warhammer the lowest (the dagger is not counted as it does not benefit from fortify 1 handed)

Sweep from 2 handed is highly overrated, as it only hits an area in front, so it will hit at most 3 enemies. As enemies don't tend to cluster, sweep becomes even less useful, especially as you will tend to miss if you are not used to it as the character continues moving sideways. In fact, the really important perks other than "barbarian" for a 2 hander are "great critical charge", which provides a fast animation power attack (in comparison to the foward power attack) and "savage strike" (or something like that), which augments your fastest power attack (standing) with more damage.

In fact, 2 handed has absolutely no advantage over a sword and shield style, in terms of pure gameplay perspective. 2 handed is in fact relavant only from an RP point of view. Also, the weight increase of a 2 handed weapon ridiculous. The only redeeming feature of a 2 handed weapon is that they look nice (I especially like the greatswords)"



"One handed plus shield is better, bacause you not only make use of all the block perks, but one handed, given enough crafting and smithing, will actually reach a point where it starts to out DPS a 2 handed weapon, as they seem to attack about 30-45% faster. Also, block with a shield is stronger and 1 handed is better with enchantments as it attacks faster and so can apply more enchantments in a set frame of time."



"The biggest frustration I've encountered with 2h weapons is that due to the fact that you can't cancel an attack mid-swing to block an incoming attack, 2h fighting becomes just a crazed attempt to burn the enemy down before they do the same to you. I get that they shouldn't be as defensive as a 1h/shield, but it almost seems like you have to go out of your way to block an attack by just sitting there waiting for the enemy to make a move (much akin to Oblivion's combat of two people sitting there with their shields up for an eternity, waiting to be the one that can get the counter attack) which in the end isn't a very enjoyable playstyle, and it only works if there's only one enemy left anyway. Sadly, the only other option is to just keep swinging and tanking hits head on, which doesn't bode well for your reservoir of health potions.

Ultimately, 2h combat comes down to getting a rhythm down for doing power attacks at just the right time that you keep an opponent staggered for as much of the fight as possible, but due to the slow animation speed and the fact that it's incredibly common for the AI to just back out of range of the attack, it can get really, REALLY frustrating fighting ranged attackers (especially frost mages). Combat vs melee is generally darting into range and taking a quick swing on an enemy inbetween their attacks if they have a 2h as well, and trying to time it so that your power attacks are mid-swing just as the enemy gets into range of you so that you can hit and stagger them, then back off and wait for stamina to regen and repeat. Elemental Fury shout and liberal (ab)use of minor stamina potions is almost mandatory for higher difficulties, especially dragons."



"While the One-handed skill can easily exceed this level of damage with dual-wielding, two-handed weapons retain the ability to block. However, the effect is diminished, and two-handed weapons prevent you from equipping a shield, thus preventing the use of certain Block perks that specifically use shields (e.g. Deflect Arrows, Elemental Protection)."



"Two Handers don't have perks designed around any principles. 1H and 2H share the exact same generic damage-buffing perks. There's no 2Hand exclusive perks that relate to stagger or anything else that would set a 2Hand apart.

The only difference between the weapons is a minor difference in weapon reach, which is entirely irrelevant in actual gameplay, and a single endgame AoE perk. So for that one pointless upside, 1Hands have a plethora of other upsides.

To put it as simply as humanly possible:
One Handed can do the same things.
One Handed can also do more things."



Inb4 people tell me to "just play how you enjoy it, it doesn't matter". To me it does. I can't justify using weapons if they are objectively inferior to others in practically every single way, and that thought never leaves my head. I also don't use mods, I wanna experience the game in its base form.

Thanks.

[Stormsong]

No. You might quickly grow to appreciate style when you start one shotting everything regardless though. 2 handed weapons are pretty.

[mpd1958]

You have researched this quite well and have for the most part answered your own question.

No, there is no viable reason to pick 2H over 1H/S. The only reason to do so is for the asthetics of the game play. The look if it as you will. I have to admit though that some of the kill cam animations are pretty cool for 2H weapons.

[SilkySmooth]

Originally posted by mpd1958:

You have researched this quite well and have for the most part answered your own question.

No, there is no viable reason to pick 2H over 1H/S. The only reason to do so is for the asthetics of the game play. The look if it as you will. I have to admit though that some of the kill cam animations are pretty cool for 2H weapons.

agreed, i might try a 2H roleplay in my next playthrough

[Northern_Gryphon]

The only advantage that I didn't see you mention was that 2h uses less perk points that 1h+shield. It's less of an advantage late game, to get all of the benefits of using a sword and shield, you have to invest about twice as many perk points.

I think you missed something on your weight comment though. Taking the top tier dragonbone equipment for comparison, all 2h melee weapons weigh less than a sword and shield. they might weigh a lot more than the sword, but if you're carrying 2, or a shield, it adds up.

[FauxFurry]

The only real advantage of two handed weapons over one handed weapons is when one fights a heavily armored opponent. A warhammer with the right perks completely ignores their defenses and breaks them down in one mighty blow.
They are more situational tools than main weapons. You might get good use out of them in the Civil War when siding with the Stormcloaks. Imperial commanders/legates are crushed like tin cans licketypsplit.

[Neonetik]

Maces have the same armor penetration that warhammers have.

[Dustin Dalby]

You've answered your own question regarding vanilla Skyrim, so I guess I'll answer with a question of my own : how willing are you to mod the game?

I recall seeing a mod out there that speeds up Two Handed attack animations with options on how fast you want them. I haven't researched the precise effect that has on 1H vs 2H DPS but that's a starting point. Also I can't recommend Ordinator enough, I haven't even started playing Two Handed with that but a look at the tree was enough to have me seriously consider not going Sword And Board. So that's a thing.

tl;dr : Vanilla doesn't give any good reason to. Mods might if you're up for that.

[Siddha]

I dont like heavy armor so 2H is not for me. My shield is a second weapon as well as a defense and can be enchanted. The interplay of shield and 1H works well for me. I can't see any attraction in 2H. Maybe with the right mod as was suggested.

[ADEC Inc]

DPS isn't much of a concern when a single power attack can drop most foes.

A shield will reduce incoming damage more, but to increase the block skill requires standing there like a dolt allowing enemies to strike you dozens of times, meaning you take much more damage than you would by simply killing them quickly.

I've used Sweep plenty of times, and it's very satisfying to ragdoll several fools at once. It's quite common to fight many melee opponents so they certainly do "cluster" near you.

Since you mention maximizing weapons via crafting, even if you played on Legendary you should still be doing sufficient damage, and my second point becomes even more relevant when you're receiving triple damage.

[alexander_dougherty]

The only reasons to do two handed are variety (you want a change from one handed or even dual weilding) and to continue progressing without loosing your skills (so you can swap over to one handed if you come across something tougher than two handed can deal with).

In previous games they divided weapons into bladed, blunt and bows, with perks relating to those qualities rather than one handed and two handed. In this game them divided them into one handed, two handed and bows(crossbows were added later), but neglected to add the differences that would have made this approach worthwhile. Thus the onlyy reasons to do it are fairly cosmetic.

[Felwalker]

Milk drinker

[AllMighto?]

my 2h mace deals near 2.9k base dmg whit buffs (potions + Orc Racial ) so i can oneshot anythintg whit power attacks, no reason to talk about dps when enemyes die in 1 swing (Legendary difficulty) ... and whit 80% elemental resistance + 50fire/frost/storm resistance ( and can be improved to 100% by using potions) mages arent a big problem to deal whit... or i can just throw them an arrow whit 20+ seconds of paralize.... But yeah, if you dont want to powerup your gear/alchemy then 1h is better

[Pierr🅰x]

I modded my skyrim with overall combat scaling and my 2h weapons deal something like dmg x3 or x4 but the time to hit is slightly incrased. This is actually pretty nice because i have a real feeling of dealing MASSIVE dmg with one hit.

[The Jiffiness]

If you add in the mod "weapon fixes remade" (I think that is what is called) it changes the weapon damages and makes 2h much more viable. As one person was saying, you need to add perks into the shield also if you go 1 handed, but if you choose to go 2 handed, you can invest points into restoration and become a paladin type of class. I think all in all it depends if you are modding and more importantly your play style and if you are having fun. Fun is the point of all video games.

[Caesar]

Originally posted by NeonAbomination:

Inb4 people tell me to "just play how you enjoy it, it doesn't matter". To me it does. I can't justify using weapons if they are objectively inferior to others in practically every single way, and that thought never leaves my head. I also don't use mods, I wanna experience the game in its base form.

Thanks.

You shouldn't worry too much about "the ultimate meta build" because;
#1 That'll ruin the fun/experience in itself.
#2 You can win/beat the game any way (no matter your playstyle) basically, & if you don't compare weapons/stats/etc directly you won't even 'notice a difference' in the first place.

Create your own char & lore, & go from there - everything else is counter productive (fun-wise, in the long run).
That's just my opinion though.

Also skill points can be "refunded" anyway.
"After Miraak is defeated (Dragonborn DLC only), all the perks in a skill tree can be removed to be used elsewhere at the cost of one dragon soul. This can be done at anytime provided dragon souls are available."

And if you want more perk points in general, there are also mods for such.
(I also suggest using weapon/enchantment mods, by the way).
Also this;
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/1137

I know you said you don't wanna use mods (but honestly they just improve the game SO MUCH overall, would make no sense to not add/use them). Especially the Unofficial Patch (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/266/).