Conjuration Archer Suggestions

[Awesome Truck]

In a few days I plan on starting a new skyrim character that mainly uses conjuaration to summon minions and then pelt my enemies with arrows. My planned build is as follows...

-Archery (duh)
-Conjuration (duh)
-light armor
-restoration
-sneak+illusion (possible but, most likely will avoid)
-race: high elf for the magic boost, or I could just say screw it...

Notes: I do not plan on using, smithing, alchemy or enchanting as they are all super broken and I feel like it would be more fun without them. I am also not going to be playing with mods so avoid suggesting any pls.

Anyway, I am mainly looking for advice if this build seems resonable other than that, I have a few questions about what to use...

Q1. Should I use dremora lords or the skelition guys from Dawnguard (wraithmen?)
Q2. What bow should I use? Bound Bow seems the highest damage but I imagine I will run into magicka problems pretty quick, since I plan on wearing armor. The other option would probaly be zeapher (the dwarven bow that fires 30% faster), or whatever enchanted bow I could find. I could also use a crossbow but the slow fire seems pretty bad on a build like this.

Thanks!

[Drakenson]

A1: Dremora Lords have more DPS with their Two-handed weapons, Wraithmen from Dawnguard have more HP or something, (so they're tankier?). Getting the Summon Dremora spell is a lot easier than getting the spell Summon Wraithman. Either is good I suppose.

A2: You're really gimping yourself for not getting at least one of the crafting skills. Zephyr is pretty good, especially since it seems you'll be skirmishing in the heat of a fight more-so than hiding in the corners with a Daedric bow. Bound Bow is pretty good too, just expect the damage output to decrease once you get into higher levels and encounter harder enemies.

You COULD stop leveling up after a certain point, say level 30, and most enemies you encounter will still hurt but not feel like total damage sponges. You just have to avoid the 'Level Up' screen like the plague for the rest of the game.

Mods honestly give life to this game, and balance too. There are perk overhaul mods that balance the crafting skills and make the combat perk trees 10x more useful. There are even mods that make in-game NPCs like Blacksmiths and Enchanters offer their service to you so that you do not have to Smith or Enchant yourself; just hire someone else to do it.

Sorry for this wall of text. Do some mod hunting to balance your next playthrough out, not all mods out there are aiming to break immersion or balance. In fact, many do quite the opposite.

[Zsrai]

I'm playing a Bound Bow using Archer Mage right now and the build is super viable. My skills being used are Archery, Conjuration (Bound Weapons and Atronachs, no Undead), Alteration (using robes, you could "replace" this with Light Armor in your build), Enchanting (you get Soul Trap on your Bound Bow through perks anyways), and a little bit of Restoration and Speech (it levels more or less automatically anyways). I'm a Dark Elf with 0 points into HP so far at level 20. I'm also using a perk/skill tree mod (not Ordinator) though. It's pretty close to Vanilla but has spell scaling included.

Q1 - I'm planning on just using Atronachs and/or the Dremora Lord, since I'm avoiding necromancy anyways. I'm pretty sure the Lord is the best over all summon you can use.

Q2 - I'd use Bound Bow since you're leveling Conjuration anyways. It has the best DPS of any bow before Smithing comes into play (which you're not using). The other top DPS bows that you'd want to use as a non-Stealth Assassin are Zephyr and Auriel's Bow, with the latter being a hair better.

If you don't want to break the game with crafting, good for you. I feel the same way, and usually do no crafting or only choose 1 to skill up. With Enchanting you can pretty much just not perk it and it'll still be pretty good at 100 skill. Even if you do perk it, just skip Extra Effect as that's the perk that makes everything you make far and away better than any artifacts you find. By the same token, I would avoid Stealth Archery entirely if you don't want to break the game. Nothing as is boringly, brokenly OP as a Stealth Archer in Skyrim.

[DrNewcenstein]

Smithing, Alchemy, and Enchanting are not broken, nor are they OP. If you do the Restoration Loop on purpose, then yes, you can get higher-than-vanilla bonuses to all three, but the Restoration loop is not something you can do accidentally.

Vanilla-enchanted crafting gear adds very little to the final result; so little that it's not even worth using in a normal run, but certainly will not turn your build into a monster bow-hunting freakazoid.

However, you also have to understand that Skyrim is not as much of an RPG as it is a "Call of Warcraft" type of thing, so if you go out there relying heavily on magic, you will probably encounter more melee enemies, because, by some twisted Skyrim-only logic, zapping someone in a metal suit with fire or lightning doesn't turn them into bacon. As well, you'll encounter mages with more shock than fire or frost, because shock spells damage your magicka.

Skyrim needs a liquid-magic attack, like Burning Oil or Acid - something that makes armored lummocks afraid of mages. Yeah those Steel Plate Boots of Waning Frost protect against my Freezing Whirlwind, but they fill up with Burning Oil, and because it's oil, you're having a hard time getting a grip on them to remove them before your feet melt off.

[Awesome Truck]

Alright thanks for the input here are a few responses...

1. I shouldve made this more clear, its not that I don't like mods it's just that I can't use them as my current PC doesn't run skyrim very well so I am playing on PS4 instead.

2. I guess I can use enchanting+smithing, it just makes it so any gear you find is completely worthless. But, I guess I can get over it.

[bigdale]

I'm playing a build right now that doesn't allow me to make or enchant any of my own equipment (everything must be found or bought) and not allowed to place any perks in the stealth tree. The lack of crit multipliers and the gimping of stealth makes it so stealth is not the instant win ability that it normally is.

[Awesome Truck]

Originally posted by bigdale:

I'm playing a build right now that doesn't allow me to make or enchant any of my own equipment (everything must be found or bought) and not allowed to place any perks in the stealth tree. The lack of crit multipliers and the gimping of stealth makes it so stealth is not the instant win ability that it normally is.

So do you think a build like mine would be playable on expert without too much trouble? (No crafting/enchanting and little if any sneak). As I want to play with no crafting so when I open a chest or get a relic it is actually interesting but I don't want to get demolished by evrey single opponenet. I imagine it would be quite playable thougth.

[NecroMaster]

Here is my biggest suggestion.

There is one area with a dragon in the whiterun hold in the mountains.

Also a dragon priest is here with the Krosis mask.

There is also is a shout where the dragon rests.

Learn the shout and you gain the ability to weaken enemy defenses making you very efficient as an archer.

Also the krosis mask increases archery sneak and lockpicking tremendously.

[bigdale]

Originally posted by Awesome Truck:

Originally posted by bigdale:

I'm playing a build right now that doesn't allow me to make or enchant any of my own equipment (everything must be found or bought) and not allowed to place any perks in the stealth tree. The lack of crit multipliers and the gimping of stealth makes it so stealth is not the instant win ability that it normally is.

So do you think a build like mine would be playable on expert without too much trouble? (No crafting/enchanting and little if any sneak). As I want to play with no crafting so when I open a chest or get a relic it is actually interesting but I don't want to get demolished by evrey single opponenet. I imagine it would be quite playable thougth.

I'm playing that build on expert. I did a version of it with a normal bow before switching to a magic user (both on expert) and both were challenging but survivable. You'll need to keep a few potions on hand for times when the game puts you in a small space with a boss.

[SpeedFreak1972]

Err krosis shout useful ... to my knowledge is that the throw voice shout. I mean useful to distract however weakening ...

[Awesome Truck]

1. Krosis is probably much too difficult for a new character to fight, also the word wall gives the throw voice shout not the marked for death shout. Even, if it did I feel like slow time and unrelenting force are just better for my build (Slow time for not hitting my summons/kiting and unrelenting force for knocking down any foes that get too close). Also, I can just get the DB hood, which has 20% archery if i am not mistaken and I can do it simply by killing a old lady.

2. I always carry around a bunch of potions so running out shouldnt be much of a problem.

3. I am potentially considering alchemy for more survivablity/point dumping as it isn't as broken as the other crafting skills and doesn't ruin exploring like the others do (what I mean is that if I have self-made god gear opening a chest/exploring is pointless as nothing I find will ever be better then my gear)

4. Anyway, my build at this point would pretty much be...

-archery, light armor, conjuration, restoration, illusion (for frenzy n' stuff) and some dump stat maybe alchemy?
-Weapon would be Zeapher in the early game and bound bow/auriels bow later

Well, I am still tinkering with it, so thanks for the suggestions thus far!

[bigdale]

I think you'll be fine. I tried a similar build in melee with the restriction I could only heal from regen and potions and you can make nearly anything work if you are patient and willing to retreat when things have gotten out of control. Going up the magic trees in alteration for the magic resist perk, illusion for the silent casting perk or lockpicking for the 100 carry weight perk are trees I frequently use for dump stats that add a valuable ability.

Zephyr is really good. By the time you get the stagger and faster draw perks in archery it makes soloing staggerable bosses very straightforward.

Edit: a forsworn bow can be found very early and is a great weapon to carry you until you end game stuff is available.

[Warm Fuzzies™]

Literally anything is viable on Expert. Want to play as a Tavern Patron who only fights with a Torch to bash and light enemies on fire (yeah, that actual works) and use only a single fist to beat down charred enemies?

Yep, totally viable on Expert....because enemies on fire, regardless of race/faction, always take more damage.


As for your Q2;

Use Bound Bow. The only thing that would out damage it, is an enchanted Daedric Bow, or a Dragon Bone Bow. You will not run into Magika problems, so long as you are not constantly sheathing the bow and dispelling it. Spell lasts for 120 seconds, longer when you take the perk to make Conjuration spells last longer.

Also, taking perks in the Archery tree will buff your Bound Bow.

Not to mention, you don't have to worry about finding or carrying good arrows, as the arrows used with the spell are Daedric Arrows.


As for Illusion, there is really only one good spell in there, Quiet Casting. Because the last thing you want is to be in a compact room, use the Bound Bow spell, and alert the whole damn place.

If you are against Illusion though, you could always just carry a backup physical bow for those situations.


As for what minion to use, doesn't really matter. Of note, any melee based minion WILL get in your way. Be it blocking doors, corridors, or just line of site out in the field.

[Warm Fuzzies™]

I would also suggest reading about the advantages/disadvantages of using Bound Bow, found here on its wiki page;

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Bound_Bow_(Skyrim)

[bigdale]

Illusion is an incredibly strong tree. You can make enemies fight each other until there is only one left which will be beat up. Quiet casting means they'll never find you if you hang back. I made a mage focused around illusion and quit relatively quickly as fury/frenzy/mayhem are wildly OP if abused.

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by Awesome Truck:

2. I guess I can use enchanting+smithing, it just makes it so any gear you find is completely worthless. But, I guess I can get over it.

If you don't want to use crafting, then don't. You really don't need to to do well. Like I said, I tend to just flat out skip it entirely.

Originally posted by Awesome Truck:

3. I am potentially considering alchemy for more survivablity/point dumping as it isn't as broken as the other crafting skills and doesn't ruin exploring like the others do (what I mean is that if I have self-made god gear opening a chest/exploring is pointless as nothing I find will ever be better then my gear)

Exactly. Even if you use them you don't have to max them out; you can use Alchemy or Enchanting without filling out the perks to control the power level, for example. I like Enchanting as a cloth user because there aren't really any pre-enchanted gloves or boots in the entire game. I think the Archmage's Boots (40% Shock Resist)are the only ones.

Originally posted by Awesome Truck:

4. Anyway, my build at this point would pretty much be...

-archery, light armor, conjuration, restoration, illusion (for frenzy n' stuff) and some dump stat maybe alchemy?
-Weapon would be Zeapher in the early game and bound bow/auriels bow later

Well, I am still tinkering with it, so thanks for the suggestions thus far!

You can get Bound Bow far, FAR earlier than you can get Zephyr by the way. You can purchase it at 40 Conjuration skill from a couple of Court Wizards or at the College, or you can pick up the ground spawn book as early as level 1 (if you run and heal). Even by about level 10 you can clear out the area of mobs and pick it up the regular way. It's up to you if you want it that early or not, though. Sticking with the physical bows offers a more "standard" progression (and some differing options if you want different enchant effects).

Originally posted by bigdale:

Edit: a forsworn bow can be found very early and is a great weapon to carry you until you end game stuff is available.

I prefer a simple Hunting Bow honestly. A Long Bow is also good, but I think they look utterly awful.