The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition

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Are the High Elves supposed to parallel real world Germany?
I don't know if any of you guys are history buffs or not but Germany has 3 golden ages in their history and so do the High Elves.

The first golden age for Germany happened between 962 to 1806 back when Germany was the Holy Roman Emprire and the Protestant reformation happened during the first reich to challenge the widespread Catholic Dogma. They controlled a vast part of Europe throughout this era. The first Aldmeri Domion was also a golden age for the High Elves under the leadership of Queen Ayreen and likewise had a rejection of the Human reverence for Talos, which sparked a war between the Elves and humans. The First Aldmeri Dominion succeeded in uniting with Valenwood and Elsywr through negotiation and friendship but withered out before they could achieve their ambitions to rule over all of Tamriel (much like the the Holy Roman Empire did with Europe).

The second reich happened in 1871 with the reunification of the German States under the leadership of Emperor Bismark. Bismark achieved the reunification through a combination of both conquest and negotiation. The second reich ultimately ended in 1918 with the entrance of America into the war with their new tanks which resulted in the signing the Treaty of Versailles at the end of World War I. The Second Aldmeri Domion under Camoran Anaxemes formed the Thalmor and invaded Valenwood while forging alliances with Elswyr, parts of the Reach and the Pyandonea island. It met its end at the hands of Tiber Septim who used the Numidium (Dwarven technology) to force a surrender of the Aldmeri Domion which resulted in the treaty of the white gold concordant.

And the Third Reich started in 1933 under the leadership of a barely known dictator named Adolf Hitler and ended with his death in 1944. Hitler gained power entirely through conquest and used concentration camps to imprison those he deemed "unworthy" to live among the Aryan race. The Third Aldmeri Domion shares a lot of similarities with Hitler's Nazi Germany. Ultranationalism, secret torture camps, strict enforcement of their ideals. But it is unknown how the third Aldmeri Domion will meet its end since they are still in power in Skyrim and show no signs of coming undone.

It makes you wonder, are the High Elves being propped up to be a high-fantasy version of the Nazis? And if that's the case, are the other races supposed to mirror historical European politics? Are the Bretons supposed to mirror the French since they have a region named Brittany and the people who live there are known as Bretons? Are the Nords supposed to be based off of Scandinavia? Why do the Khajiit have Spanish accents? And the Red guards have a lot of middle eastern influences in both their attire and their weaponry. Does anyone else see all the similarities in the Elder Scrolls lore and real life history?
Last edited by KalkiKrosah; Sep 8, 2019 @ 7:48pm
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Showing 1-15 of 32 comments
WooF Sep 8, 2019 @ 7:48pm 
This can be said with most fantasy settings. They all come from somewhere or based off some hisstory
KalkiKrosah Sep 8, 2019 @ 7:52pm 
Originally posted by WooF:
This can be said with most fantasy settings. They all come from somewhere or based off some hisstory

Game of Thrones is loosely based off of the War of the Roses, which saw the York (Stark) and Lancaster (Lannister) houses competing to rule all of England. George R.R. Martin added in a whole lot more complexity and drama to his version of it but that was his inspiration for it all.

That being said, if we can find parallels between the Elder Scrolls lore and the real world we might be able to predictvwhst happens next in the storyline...
Praetor Invicta Sep 8, 2019 @ 8:26pm 
All the races are a mix of different real life cultures. The Aldemeri Dominion is just a regular totalitarian state... you see a lot of those throughout history.

The Elder Scrolls Series is also based mostly off of Antiquity with the Imperials being a mix of Roman and Greek Culture. The Elder Scrolls themselves are inspired by the Roman Sibylline Books. The imperial armors and weapons throughout the series are also obviously roman and greek inspired armors with even a few real armors in TES 3.

The High Elves and elves in general are mostly inspired by eastern cultures with a large stereotypical Tolken styled elf culture as well.

Dark Elves are a Mix of India and China with a gothic touch.

Bretons are a mix of English, German and French Medieval (Ancient Celtic for forsworn).

Khajiit are a Mix of Jewish, Gypsie, African, Arabic and a touch of Spanish.

Nords are a mix of Scandinavian and Scottish.

Argonians are Aztec and south american tribal.

Orcs are medieval Mongolian.

Redguards are Egyptian (im aware of the joke here).

Woodelves are basically just stereotypical tree hippy elves from mythology and fantasy worlds.

You can even break these cultures down into the real life equivilant of their sub cultures too, like the Colovians and Nebineans in Cyrodiil are much like the ancient cultures of italy.

It doesnt seem like anything here ties into anything modern like WW2. Your just noticing a simularity in how history repeats itself, but the events in TES are more so related to events in Antiquity.

Skyrims time period itself is more like later roman empire where the empire is falling apart. Realistically the Thalmor are more like the parthians or eastern roman empire and the majority of the problems of the Cyrodiilic empire are coming from its inablity to maintain itself.
Last edited by Praetor Invicta; Sep 8, 2019 @ 8:36pm
Ambugaton Sep 8, 2019 @ 8:34pm 
And some of the Thalmor uniforms like the Justiciars look they were meant to have double lightening bolts or red arm bands.
Praetor Invicta Sep 8, 2019 @ 8:42pm 
Whats going to happen next in the story is that if the Aldemeri Dominion is the equivilant of the Eastern Roman empire and the Oblivion crisis was the crisis of the third century, then the Empire would largely be gone with the exception of the Dominion (eastern empire) and if the setting is in Hammerfell, then I can imagine that the next game would be more Medieval with a collapsed cyrodiilic empire and a Crusade like thing going on in Hammerfell.

Its also a possibility that with the White gold concordat at the end of the great war before skyrim and the Redguards being forced to split from the Empire, that the Redguards could possibly be like the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) during the crusades. This would mean that it would be about several hundred years after skyrim. It could also be like the rise of Islam having an equivilant being added into TES lore.
Last edited by Praetor Invicta; Sep 8, 2019 @ 8:43pm
Ambugaton Sep 8, 2019 @ 8:44pm 
Originally posted by Praetor Invicta:
.

Bretons are a mix of English, German and French Medieval (Ancient Celtic for forsworn).

Agreed, maybe verging into picking something up from the Picts.

In the case of the Dominion though to my eyes the parallels were pretty direct to modern fascist totalitarian states. The uniforms, the secret police, etc. seem pretty direct in parallels with the SS, gestapo, etc. Like I said above, the Justiciar uniform looks remarkably modern to me:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/1/12/Ancarion.png/revision/latest?cb=20130304214917
Last edited by Ambugaton; Sep 8, 2019 @ 8:50pm
Praetor Invicta Sep 8, 2019 @ 8:44pm 
What im curious to know is if the Aldemeri Dominion claims to be the true Empire since it was they who first ruled nirn in the merithic era of TES lore.
Perplex Sep 8, 2019 @ 10:55pm 
Thalmor is closer to Communism imo. They forbidd "religion" (well, talos) and they dont like it when people have opinions of their own.
Praetor Invicta Sep 8, 2019 @ 10:59pm 
Originally posted by Perplex:
Thalmor is closer to Communism imo. They forbidd "religion" (well, talos) and they dont like it when people have opinions of their own.
Typically communism would be worse then these guys.
Ambugaton Sep 8, 2019 @ 11:01pm 
Originally posted by Perplex:
Thalmor is closer to Communism imo. They forbidd "religion" (well, talos) and they dont like it when people have opinions of their own.


But they don't forbid religion. They just forbid religion that isn't sanctioned by the State, by all appearances at least partially rooted in their beliefs in racial superiority, no way a human could have ascended when they themselves aren't.
Perplex Sep 8, 2019 @ 11:04pm 
Originally posted by Praetor Invicta:
Originally posted by Perplex:
Thalmor is closer to Communism imo. They forbidd "religion" (well, talos) and they dont like it when people have opinions of their own.
Typically communism would be worse then these guys.

Yes, but they resemble communists more than they do the different types of germans in history.
Ambugaton Sep 8, 2019 @ 11:18pm 
Originally posted by Perplex:
Originally posted by Praetor Invicta:
Typically communism would be worse then these guys.

Yes, but they resemble communists more than they do the different types of germans in history.

We’re veering into politics here and this is likely my last comment on it, but I don’t see it. Their central doctrine is a doctrine of racial superiority, subjugation of other races or even eliminatation of the same. They’re seeking to wipe out Talos worship not because they’re against religion but because that particular religion contradicts their own, a religion that enshrines their belief in their own racial superiority and claims that they themselves are half-ascended. In belief and stated motivation anyway they don’t have much in common with communists or communism, but plenty in common with nazi doctine. If we’re talking about just being generally evil, well authoritarianism invariably leads to that. It’s just that this flavor of authoritarianism can’t be separated from their beliefs in racial superiority.
Last edited by Ambugaton; Sep 8, 2019 @ 11:21pm
Praetor Invicta Sep 8, 2019 @ 11:28pm 
The Racial Superiority thing does relate more to the Nazis, but its all rather irelivant. Point is that they are an authoritarian state similar to most authoritarian states throughout history. They are in competition with Tamriel's Cyrodiilic Empire and are essentially fufilling a role of a rising power as Cyrodiil is in decline. Undoubtedly they will show up again in the next game as a focus point to at least some extent with the new games story.
258789553873 Sep 9, 2019 @ 12:33am 
Originally posted by Perplex:
Thalmor is closer to Communism imo. They forbidd "religion" (well, talos) and they dont like it when people have opinions of their own.

All totalitarianism is like that. Hitler wasn't too supportive of diversity either.

Either way, communism isn't supposed to be totalitarianism. To put it in simple terms, its an idiot's idea of what anarchy is like. Anarchists believe anarchy is better, despite the problems it brings. They essentially want the world of Bioshock, where there are no leaders or heirarchy; everyone has as much influence over society as any other with NO exceptions. Communists are just anarchists who just deny that anarchy causes problems. Societies that try to go communist always end up totalitarian because:

1. You can't create a power vacuum and expect it to stay that way, sooner or later someone's going to gain influence over the nation, and its probably not going to be pretty since there's no authority to do anything about it.
2. Communism is a purely theoretical system that could only work if human nature wasn't what it is, which is why communist nations tend to conduct experiments to change human nature. Communism just can't work in reality, and some have actually realized that, and so they literally try to change the rules of reality.

As for the Aldmeri dominion. Yeah, they're totalitarian, but Nazi Germany was hardly the only totalitarian nation to exist, and not the only one to try and suppress other cultures. Just look at the Japanese empire and what they did to Korea. However, its hard to call them Nazi since Nazism is to particular to the culture of our world. Its essentially a combination of white supremacism, authoritarianism, and populism, all of which revolves around anti-semetic conspiracy theories. Obviously, its hard to be an anti-semite in a fictional world where Jews don't exist. And I don't believe the Thalmor's philosophy revolves around conspiracy theories about any group, let alone one that could be considered an analogue to Jews.

Are they racist? Yes. Are they authoritarian? Yes. Does that make them Nazis? No, because those two traits alone aren't unique to Nazism and never have been. I mean, there were nations in ancient Mesopotamia who were both racist and authoritarian. Ever heard of Sargon of Akkad? The real Sargon instigated a genocide and waged a massive war on his neighbors. And no, that picture the Sargon of Akkad on youtube uses isn't the real Sargon, that's Hammurabi I believe. The real Sargon wasn't exactly noted for being contemplative, or rational, even by the people of his own time. They normally depicted him as being angry and monstrous, not contemplative and calm.

Now, could the Thalmor have been inspired by the Nazis? Honestly, its likely. I know there's a book in Oblvion that claims that they practice Eugenics, which was also really big with the Nazis, and in fact is considered a core component of Nazism, though mainly through their racist ideologies. Its hard to call them outright Nazis though, though mainly because the definition of Nazism is so specific. Its the system of believes that Germany followed under Hitler, and there wasn't truly been another 'nazi' nation since then. Yeah, there were fascist nations, but Nazism is a type of fascism. Its even debated whether or not fascism could be considered a system unto itself, instead some argue its more of a philosophy that many different systems of government can follow.

And as for the racism thing, let's be honest, race wars have been a core component of fantasy since Tolkien. Yeah, they're racist, but so are the Nords, and the Dwemer obviously were too. You could also argue that orcs are racist too. Sadly, I haven't played any other games to know what the other races are like. The imperials obviously aren't racist, though their nation is highly cosmopolitan. There was a lot of racism between the Khajiits and Argonians in Leyawin, but that's because it was once an Argonian city before the Khajiit took it, followed by Cyrodil, so its not much a surprise the two nationalities don't get along. One did literally conquer the city from the other at one point. I think I've also heard that the Dunmer enslaved Argonians, so I guess you could say there were racist. Of course, you can argue that everyone is racist since no one seems to give respect to other obviously intelligent races who just so happen to not own their own nations. Point is, its a high fantasy game, so racism is a part of it, whether we like it or not.
I don't know if this has been said, but you don't have to draw parallels with fantasy and reality.

You can connect things in Works of Fiction (which by definition includes Fantasy and Sci-Fi) which stuff in the real world. But often the connection is one the writers did not intend.

Heck, if you pretend real stuff is fictional you can draw parallels between Hitler and Genghis Khan, or Napolean and Attila the Hun.

Just enjoy the story for what it is, and stop trying to tie it into the real world.
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Date Posted: Sep 8, 2019 @ 7:45pm
Posts: 32