Fortify Smithing, not sure how it works (SOLVED)

[GoodSmith]

So I enchanted and equipped an armor, bracers, ring and amulet with the Fortify Smithing enchantnemt, with a combined total of 74% better improvment on weapons and armor, then I drink a potion that fortifies smithing by 50%, and I immediately sit on a grindstone to improve my Ebony sword, but the result is the same as if I didn't fortify my smithing.

So how does this exactly work? What am I doing wrong?

Note: My smithing skill is 22 and I didn't yet put any perks in it. Does that matter?

UPDATE: My smithing skill was actually 17 when I first wrote this. Now I figured out how this works. See my reply in post #13 below.

[Dala]

Well you must have the ebony smithing perk to have twice improvement on ebony and your smithing skill is to low. Read the smithing wiki for more info.

Your smithing is 22, with gear and potion 114%. Above 44. You won't get far with that. There's a table of improvement in the wiki.

[Belanos]

You need to pass certain thresholds, simply having a few more points in Smithing is not going to make any difference. This page has a description as to how it works:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Smithing

[GoodSmith]

Tried reading the smithing wiki but not sure if I understood it correctly. I expected the Fortify Smithing to increase the damage value of my weapon, but it appears it's only used to achieve a higher quality item ( Superior, Exquisite, ..etc), is that correct?

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by GoodSmith:

Tried reading the smithing wiki but not sure if I understood it correctly. I expected the Fortify Smithing to increase the damage value of my weapon, but it appears it's only used to achieve a higher quality item ( Superior, Exquisite, ..etc), is that correct?

yes, it boosts what the game uses to temper armour or sharpen weapons, but you still need to get the base level up to earn perks.

Fortify onehanded, fortify archery, or fortify twohanded increase weapon damage.

[Belanos]

Originally posted by GoodSmith:

Tried reading the smithing wiki but not sure if I understood it correctly. I expected the Fortify Smithing to increase the damage value of my weapon, but it appears it's only used to achieve a higher quality item ( Superior, Exquisite, ..etc), is that correct?

Increasing the damage value of a weapon is exactly what increasing the quality does. But even with your enchantments and potion, you don't have enough points in order to pass the next threshold. Without the perks, you would need 65 points in Smithing to reach the next level, and your enhancements only give you 44. That's why I don't bother with enhancements like that. If you don't have quite enough points in the skill, they're not going to have any effect anyway.

[GoodSmith]

So if my combined enchantments and potions gives me, say, a 100% better imporovments of weapons and armor, what does this number mean to my level 22 smithing? Does it raise my smithing level temporarily to 44?

According to the wiki, at 44 I should be able to reach Superior level, but when I improved my Ebony sword it turned out only Fine.

[Belanos]

Originally posted by GoodSmith:

According to the wiki, at 44 I should be able to reach Superior level, but when I improved my Ebony sword it turned out only Fine.

Yes, that article isn't exactly clear how it works. The higher the level of weapon, the more points you need in order to achieve the next threshold. The bottom line is that you don't have enough skill points in order to bring the quality of the Ebony weapon up high enough. You would notice a difference if you were trying to improve a Steel weapon though. Which I suspect is the material that chart is based on. It's probably meant to be more of an example rather than the ultimate guide.

[GoodSmith]

I will have to read the wiki again and study the formulas there. This enchantment is more complex than I thought and it appears other factors have an impact as well. Thanks guys for your help.

[Belanos]

Originally posted by GoodSmith:

and it appears other factors have an impact as well.

Indeed. It's a combination of your skill level plus the overall level of the material you are trying to improve. Ebony is one of the highest, so you would need a lot more points in order to improve it than you would with Steel. I wouldn't bother over-thinking it though, you'll get to see how it works as you play the game.

[GoodSmith]

I am a bit obsessed with numbers, so I am very tempted to figure out how this works exactly :D
And I am going to post an update once I figure out exactly how Fortify Smithing works.

[Dala]

Originally posted by Belanos:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Smithing

Have you looked at it, number crunching right there.

Originally posted by GoodSmith:

I am a bit obsessed with numbers, so I am very tempted to figure out how this works exactly :D
And I am going to post an update once I figure out exactly how Fortify Smithing works.

[Belanos]

Originally posted by Dala:

Have you looked at it, number crunching right there.

That article isn't quite complete though. It doesn't account for the extra points needed for higher level materials, like Ebony.

[GoodSmith]

Ok, so I think I have now a better understanding of how the Fortify Smithing works. It doesn't directly increase the damage or defence of your improved weapon and armor as I used to think, but it rather increases the effective Smithing skill. If your effective smithing skill surpasses a certain threshold the quality of the improved item increases to a new level (Fine, Superior, Exquisite, .. etc.)

The damage or armor rating of the improved item would then be based only on the quality level achieved.

The Smithing wiki page explains the formulas to calculate all these numbers although I am not sure how accurate they are.

For example: The table in the wiki says I need an effective smithing level of 31 to be able to achieve a Superior improvement, but according to the formulas I increased my smithing level from a base 22 to an effective 28.44 yet the game allowed me to smith my Superior items. So either the game used the calculated item quality level (1.93 & rounded to 2), or it calculated my base level as 22.9 or something like that (I was about to hit level 23), which would generate a rounded up effective level of 31.

Either way, I figured out the basic principle behind how the improvement work, so I will keep my eye on the formulas as I increase my smithing skill to know when to use my enchantments and potions to reach that next level.

The wiki doesn't mention anything about the effect of higher-leveled material into the formula, so I don't think the item material matters, except only for the material perk points in the Smithing skill tree.

[IllicitSmile]

Do some grinding. I like jewelry. seems to give bigger exp jumps. Then enchant it. Then sell it. That helps 3 skills.